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Boris Favre's Sakpipa
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texasbagpiper
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PostPosted: Tue Oct 24, 2006 4:01 pm    Post subject: Boris Favre's Sakpipa Reply with quote

My friend Bo Favre in Vancouver B.C. recently started making Sakpipa's and they are mighty fine... Here's a pic... Cheers, Seth



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Olle
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PostPosted: Tue Oct 24, 2006 4:49 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Indeed they look very nice. Please encourage him to 1. Continue making bagpipes and 2. Join us here at NSAA! Smile

Is that maple, by the way? Apple?

Olle
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texasbagpiper
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PostPosted: Tue Oct 24, 2006 5:09 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I think Maple, Hey Bo are they Maple???
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nfadmin
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PostPosted: Tue Oct 24, 2006 5:27 pm    Post subject: Wood Type Reply with quote

Without my glasses they look like American wild cherry, which brings up a good point, is there a BEST wood to use in fabricating pipes? Since some is more porous than others, I'd suspect we at Norden Folk should consider this before we rush off and make a bunch of kits which become heavier the longer we blow them.

Are they individually, hand turned, or machine made from a template (mass produced). Bo...maybe you should get back to me in private mail if you'd like to tackle turning a dozen or so sets...pricing's the key (after quality, of course).
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nfadmin
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PostPosted: Tue Oct 24, 2006 5:32 pm    Post subject: Bo's pipes Reply with quote

Hi forgot to say what I came up her for...they're beautifully done, no question about it. Very Happy
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texasbagpiper
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PostPosted: Tue Oct 24, 2006 7:45 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I'm working on a new set I'll post a pic as soon as I'm done.. I use Banatynne synthetic bags used for mouthblown scottish smallpipes.
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Olle
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PostPosted: Tue Oct 24, 2006 8:19 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

The traditional material is birch. All preserved museum pipes are made in birch, I think, and it is still the favourite material if you ask Leif Eriksson or Börs Anders Öhman. Alban Faust usually makes pipes from harder material like maple, plum or cherry. Easier to be consistent in harder materials, I guess.

My mouth blown säckpipa is in plum:



My big bellows blown set (the one I play most nowadays) is in mazur birch:



But the latter is not to be recommended. It is beatiful, but very difficult to work with (easily breaks and the whole set had to be impregnated all way through with shellac to keep it airtight).
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texasbagpiper
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PostPosted: Wed Oct 25, 2006 7:42 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Olle Gällmo wrote:
The traditional material is birch. All preserved museum pipes are made in birch, I think, and it is still the favourite material if you ask Leif Eriksson or Börs Anders Öhman. Alban Faust usually makes pipes from harder material like maple, plum or cherry. Easier to be consistent in harder materials, I guess.

My mouth blown säckpipa is in plum:



My big bellows blown set (the one I play most nowadays) is in mazur birch:



But the latter is not to be recommended. It is beatiful, but very difficult to work with (easily breaks and the whole set had to be impregnated all way through with shellac to keep it airtight).


Olle, I notice your mouthblown set only has one finger hole on the drone, Is this the same as in the Erickson plans but with only one of the holes left out.... What note does it play with the hole open and what does it play when pressed... Seth
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Olle
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PostPosted: Wed Oct 25, 2006 10:24 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Alban Faust pipes usually only have one tuning hole. That is what it is, a tuning hole, it is not meant for playing. Most pipers don't tune them to be an exact interval, though it is certainly possible to do so.

I cover it, with the black rubber ring you see on the picture, to get D instead of E, when playing in the key of G or D. But I usually have to fine tune with the tuning slide as well.
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texasbagpiper
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PostPosted: Wed Oct 25, 2006 10:46 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I actually learned the playing of the drone from Sean Folsom....


The Swedish Sackpipa being played by Sean Folsom. Here the drone is being played as well as the chanter -at the expense of course of being restricted while doing so to the upper-hand chanter notes. See Pic..

http://www.hotpipes.com/0021play.jpg
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texasbagpiper
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PostPosted: Wed Oct 25, 2006 10:55 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Olle Gällmo wrote:
Alban Faust pipes usually only have one tuning hole. That is what it is, a tuning hole, it is not meant for playing. Most pipers don't tune them to be an exact interval, though it is certainly possible to do so.

I cover it, with the black rubber ring you see on the picture, to get D instead of E, when playing in the key of G or D. But I usually have to fine tune with the tuning slide as well.



Is that chanter an E/A chanter
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Olle
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PostPosted: Thu Oct 26, 2006 9:57 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I know that Sean Folsom claims the playable drone to be characteristic of Swedsh pipes. I've had an argument with Oliver Seeler about that many years ago (I have never talked with Sean himself, though).

The reconstructed instrument's drones are certainly playable, but this is due to the introduction of these holes by Leif Eriksson. The old instruments would not have been playable like that, and I'm sure Leif did not intend his holes to be either. Besides, tuning holes like that are not unique to Swedish pipes. My French and Northumbrian pipes have them as well, for example.

I don't deny them being playable, of course, I just refute the notion of this being a characterstic of Swedish pipes. It's a funny trick, though.

The chanter is an E/A chanter, yes.

Olle

P.S. The old instruments did have tuning holes, but they were typically too many and too small to be played, since they were used for fine tuning (i.e. covering one of them would only change the note slightly). The old instruments had no tuning slide on the drone! (Eriksson introduced that as well)
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favrepipes



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PostPosted: Thu Oct 26, 2006 9:27 pm    Post subject: boris favre's sackpipa Reply with quote

Hi folks, I appreciate the encouraging feedback. The pipes pictured above are made of local cherry wood which I found lying around my back alley after a neighbor cut down their tree. It's been sitting in my shop for a couple of years so it has had some time to dry. I don't know of anyone in western Canada who can play, not to mention ever having heard of them, so I am getting all of my info from the internet and from my friend Seth Hamon. I welcome any advice on their construction as I plan on tackling more sets and learning to play them.
Best, Bo.
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texasbagpiper
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PostPosted: Thu Oct 26, 2006 10:12 pm    Post subject: Re: Wood Type Reply with quote

nfadmin wrote:
Without my glasses they look like American wild cherry, which brings up a good point, is there a BEST wood to use in fabricating pipes? Since some is more porous than others, I'd suspect we at Norden Folk should consider this before we rush off and make a bunch of kits which become heavier the longer we blow them.

Are they individually, hand turned, or machine made from a template (mass produced). Bo...maybe you should get back to me in private mail if you'd like to tackle turning a dozen or so sets...pricing's the key (after quality, of course).


Your right they are cherry..
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PostPosted: Thu Oct 26, 2006 10:31 pm    Post subject: boris favre's sackpipa Reply with quote

I forgot to answer in my last post that my pipes are indeed individually hand-turned using a wood lathe.
Bo
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Tex
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PostPosted: Wed Nov 01, 2006 2:50 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Bo, your set of pipes looks great and turing them from 'found wood' makes them even better! Did you make the bag yourself and if you did what is it made of, what did you use for a pattern? Thanks! Tex
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texasbagpiper
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PostPosted: Wed Nov 01, 2006 3:01 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Tex wrote:
Bo, your set of pipes looks great and turing them from 'found wood' makes them even better! Did you make the bag yourself and if you did what is it made of, what did you use for a pattern? Thanks! Tex


I know Bo made the bag, I think he used the dimentions from the leif Erikson plans...

I use scottish smallpipe bags made by bannatyne.. You can get them from kinnaird bagpipes in Canada heres the link, scroll all the way to the bottom.... http://www.kinnairdbagpipes.com/products.php?cat_id=15
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Quimbisero



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PostPosted: Fri Nov 03, 2006 1:45 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I know using pre-made bags from GHB sources is a convenient solution. I am not criticizing the decision to do so, either. However, as much as I find the leather-working tedious, there is for me an aesthetic in the bag shapes that are traditional with different types of bagpipes. For me, they are part of the entire product. So, for me, when I finally make my own Sackpipa, if I don't make the bag, I will seek one that matches the traditional pattern.

Of course, I realize that that decision may force me back into bag making, an activity which is not my favorite. I will also admit that my attitude is based more upon my success with bag making rather than the process itself. I can, but I don't excel at it, and it seldom results in the aesthetically pleasing results i see in the work of some other people.

Eoghan
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PostPosted: Fri Nov 03, 2006 2:46 am    Post subject: boris favre's sackpipa Reply with quote

Texasbagpiper is correct, I did make the bag after Leif's drawings. I use a special chrome tanned leather that is already airtight. Time will tell how long it will remain so but leather bags have been known to last 20 years without needing seasoning. Having said that, I am making reference to bellows-blown bags and I don't know the potential lifespan of mouth-blown bags. Like Eoghan states, leather bags are a little tedious to make and it may take a few tries before getting the hang of it.
Bo
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Tex
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PostPosted: Fri Nov 03, 2006 3:59 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

"chrome tanned leather" where did you find this material and can you tell me a little about what it is?
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texasbagpiper
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PostPosted: Fri Nov 03, 2006 4:19 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quimbisero wrote:
I know using pre-made bags from GHB sources is a convenient solution. I am not criticizing the decision to do so, either. However, as much as I find the leather-working tedious, there is for me an aesthetic in the bag shapes that are traditional with different types of bagpipes. For me, they are part of the entire product. So, for me, when I finally make my own Sackpipa, if I don't make the bag, I will seek one that matches the traditional pattern.

Of course, I realize that that decision may force me back into bag making, an activity which is not my favorite. I will also admit that my attitude is based more upon my success with bag making rather than the process itself. I can, but I don't excel at it, and it seldom results in the aesthetically pleasing results i see in the work of some other people.

Eoghan


I myself hate making bags, thats why I offer synthetic bags on my pipes. I do like the traditional look of the leather bag, thats why I'm going to start making them as an alternative to the synthetic bags, but I'm still going to use both... I use gromlets instead of sewing most of the time.. Heres a pic on a set of border pipes I made..
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Olle
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PostPosted: Fri Nov 03, 2006 4:54 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

If you want to be really traditonal about it, you should get bark tanned hide instead och chrome tanned hide. Eriksson still use bark tanned hide, I think. Alban Faust never did (his are chrome tanned, I believe).

I think bark tanned hide gets harder, with a rougher surface. Chrome tanned hide is smooth and soft.
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Quimbisero



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PostPosted: Sat Nov 04, 2006 1:17 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

If I were going to get really traditional, I'd use a pole lathe. I don't think I am that hide bound (if you will forgive the pun). I guess I will settle for the appearances of traditional.

On the topic of grommets vs. stitching. I always thought that stitching, which is obviously the traditional approach was aesthetically more pleasing, but I have come to like the appearance of grommets as well over time. I guess it grows on you.

Well, I'm still a little ways off from tackling my own set, so we'll see what compromises I make between convenience and tradition when my turn comes to construct a sackpipa.

Eoghan
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Olle
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PostPosted: Sat Nov 04, 2006 10:52 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
If I were going to get really traditional, I'd use a pole lathe.


No no no no. Using a lathe is cheating. *Real* builders only use a knife. Smile
(I have actually seen one or two such chanters)
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Quimbisero



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PostPosted: Sat Nov 04, 2006 6:40 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I suppose that means to make the bore we should heat a metal rod of the right diameter and burn it through as well, no?

Eoghan
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Olle
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PostPosted: Sat Nov 04, 2006 8:24 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

As far as I know, all the preserved instruments in Swedish museums were "drilled" that way, yes.
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Quimbisero



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PostPosted: Sat Nov 04, 2006 11:38 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

So, are there any pictures on the web of any of the preserved older sackpipa?

Eoghan
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Olle
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PostPosted: Sun Nov 05, 2006 11:45 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Not that I know of. But I'll see what I can do about it ...
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PostPosted: Sun Nov 05, 2006 5:47 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Oh thanks. That would be great. I'm sharpening up my old swedish fish knife as we speak. Wink

Eoghan
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PostPosted: Tue Nov 07, 2006 8:32 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
"chrome tanned leather" where did you find this material and can you tell me a little about what it is?

I am by no means an expert on this but here is what I understand from the bit of research that I have done on this subject.

Tanning usually involves mixing various compounds into a large drum along with the leather and letting it cure until it reaches the desired qualities. The recipe used to mix the leather in will yield different results and each tannery has their own recipes. Chrome-tanning is a recipe that uses different ingredients than say vegetable-tanning, and it is often more effective at filling the pores in hides than other mixtures. However, not all chrome-tanning processes are created equal and choosing the right supplier is important since the title "chrome-tanned" alone does not gurantee an airtight leather.

A readily accessible supplier in north America is Tandy. I have used their motorcycle chap sides with success and would recommend it for a first run. I know of another supplier but they sell in bulk and this would only be of interest to someone making many sets of pipes. The only issue with Tandy's chap sides is that they are a little on the heavier side which may not suit those pipers who prefer a lighter, more responsive bag.

It's strongly recommended that you check for airtightness before buying any leather by putting your mouth to it and sucking air in enthousiastically to check for leaks. If no air comes through then it is good. Just make sure that no one sees you doing that or they might think you're a wierdo and call security. 3.5 to 4 oz is the best leather thickness for pipes.

All the best,
Bo
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