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DRUMALBAN
Joined: 14 May 2009 Posts: 41 Location: Argyll, Scotland
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Posted: Thu May 21, 2009 8:23 am Post subject: Early Bob Thomas Sackpipa |
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I have one of Leif Eriksson's early sackpipas. I got it about 30 years ago and it has two (working) drones without slides. The chanter holes are extremely small and it is excessively quiet. I'd be interested in getting a more robust chanter. As I live in Scotland I have no difficulty in getting cane and I can easily make reeds and a bag, stocks and blowpipe if necessary. Even with detailed measurements I could have a new chanter made by a bagpipe-maker friend. Any suggestions? Perhaps someone would be interested in my old Leif Eriksson model as a collector's time. |
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Olle Site Admin
Joined: 21 Oct 2006 Posts: 435 Location: Uppsala, Sweden
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Posted: Thu May 21, 2009 10:30 am Post subject: |
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Drumalban posted pictures of his bagpipe to me. Here is one of them:
Looks like a pretty direct replica of the bagpipe from Kättbo (to the right on page 430 in "Säckpipan i Norden"). That particular instrument has been discussed here on this forum before, when we discussed Seth Hamon's drawings and blind extra-drones.
http://www.nordenfolk.org/forum/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?t=48
The original seems to be carved with a knife, not turned.
The pictures of old bagpipes in the book should be taken with a grain of salt though. Many of the pipes were found disassembled and thrown together in boxes and it is obvious from some of these pictures that someone had to guess which part belonged to which bag.
Drumalban, maybe you should have a look at Seth's drawing. By the way, your fingerholes are not extremely small. They do seem to be smaller than on Eriksson's later chanters, but not compared to Alban Fausts. So, I very much doubt that your pipes being silent is due to the fingerhole size. _________________ Info on Swedish bagpipes at http://olle.gallmo.se/sackpipa
More about me at http://olle.gallmo.se |
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DRUMALBAN
Joined: 14 May 2009 Posts: 41 Location: Argyll, Scotland
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Posted: Thu May 21, 2009 2:11 pm Post subject: |
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Thanks for the prompt reply! It could be that this bagpipe was actually made by Bob Thomas, rather than by Leif Eriksson. Bob gave it to me many years ago. I recall him mentioning the name Leif Eriksson (simply because it's the name of the explorer), but I really cannot remember exactly what he said. When Bob and I got together we always had so much information to exchange well into the night that the details of much of it have become blurred. At the time that he gave this to me, I was very busy with other things. As I had no access to any further information on the music for it and because it was such a finicky little bagpipe with such a weak sound, I gave up attempting to play it. Around 1988 I loaned it to Julian Goodacre who returned it to me yesterday. Julian (who never met Bob) was under the impression that this was made by Leif. This is likely as Bob generally signed his instruments and there is no signature on this. On the other hand, if made by Leif it must have been one of his earliest models. I'll try to contact him and see if he recognises it. The C on the chanter (E/A) is sharp. If you need anything from Scotland, a Swedish friend of mine is going home for the summer, leaving next week. |
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Olle Site Admin
Joined: 21 Oct 2006 Posts: 435 Location: Uppsala, Sweden
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Posted: Thu May 21, 2009 8:15 pm Post subject: |
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I would think Bob Thomas is a more likely maker than Eriksson in this case, just by the looks of it. I thought so immediately when I saw your picture but did not dare to draw that conclusion. Now, after your comment on Bob Thomas, I do. If so, what you have is a rarity. Don't sell it cheap.
Bob Thomas made a few Swedish bagpipes in the 1970's, i.e. his pipes predates Eriksson's, but I don't think many of them still exists. As I recall, most of his instruments were destroyed in a fire. One instrument ended up in Spain I think, that but that's the only one I knew about before this. _________________ Info on Swedish bagpipes at http://olle.gallmo.se/sackpipa
More about me at http://olle.gallmo.se |
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DRUMALBAN
Joined: 14 May 2009 Posts: 41 Location: Argyll, Scotland
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Posted: Thu May 21, 2009 9:09 pm Post subject: |
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I had always assumed that Bob had made this; and he must have given it to me in the 1970s. I recall that I gave him an old, conically-bored Scottish small-pipe chanter as well as my usual load of lore from old pipe-makers in Scotland and in Europe. It was Julian Goodacre who suggested that the sackpipa might be a Leif Eriksson model and I remembered hearing that name from Bob, so I though that might be correct. I've emailed Leif with a photo to ask if he made them. The rather tiny finger-holes are typical of Bob's revival pipes of the '70s. Anyway, I have many stories about Bob Thomas. We first met in California - where we played together at the Renaissance Faire - in 1966. I was in Italy in 1975 and he visited me there. He also visited me once or twice in Scotland. |
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DRUMALBAN
Joined: 14 May 2009 Posts: 41 Location: Argyll, Scotland
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Posted: Fri May 22, 2009 7:28 pm Post subject: |
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I have just checked with Leif Eriksson who informs me that he did not make the sackpipa which Bob Thomas gave me. Therefore I am quite certain that it was Bob himself who made it. At the time he gave it to me he was employed by Tony Bingham in London to restore and replicate various bagpipes no longer produced. This sackpipa was, therefore, his prototype copied from the one in the musem which it so strongly resembles. Before he returned to California, Bob gave me several of his instruments and I gave him some of mine. This sackpipa has, in fact, a major scale (with a C sharp), so it was reconstructed independently of the revival within Sweden. |
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Aaron K. Holt Senior User
Joined: 01 Nov 2006 Posts: 291 Location: Pennsylvania
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Posted: Thu May 28, 2009 2:10 pm Post subject: |
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This is slightly ironic in a way to me. I was writing to Julian a couple of years ago. While were exchanging information about pipes he told me that he had a swedish bagpipe "made by Leif Erikson" but he said that he had a hard time getting it to play and that it seemed too quiet. He told me that he mostly kept it around for its cultural value. I wonder if this is that same bagpipe that he was referring to. _________________ Aaron |
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DRUMALBAN
Joined: 14 May 2009 Posts: 41 Location: Argyll, Scotland
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Posted: Thu May 28, 2009 4:14 pm Post subject: |
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It is the very same. I loaned it to Julian in 1988 and just visited him in Peebles last week. It was he who designated it as made by "Leif Eriksson" (which is what it says on the picture; I'm not very adept at the complexities of computers and after about a dozen attempts to delete that label from the photo and rewrite it I gave up lest I become too annoyed and smash my fist into the keyboard). Bob Thomas gave me that sackpipa in the 1970s, before Leif Eriksson started. I now have it back; with thanks to Julian for looking after it for twenty years! It was in good hands. I've attempted with futility to put some of my photos on this site. Each attempt involves a journey into the outer realms of Cyberspace where I am utterly lost. So I give up and keep it simple. I do have some interesting photos on my Facebook page, though. |
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Olle Site Admin
Joined: 21 Oct 2006 Posts: 435 Location: Uppsala, Sweden
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Posted: Thu May 28, 2009 4:38 pm Post subject: |
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Being worried about the negative effects to both keyboard and fist, should you lose your temper, and possible consequences to the number of posts you could produce in the future, James, I took the liberty of changing the name of this topic to "Early Bob Thomas Sackpipa".
the Moderator _________________ Info on Swedish bagpipes at http://olle.gallmo.se/sackpipa
More about me at http://olle.gallmo.se |
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DRUMALBAN
Joined: 14 May 2009 Posts: 41 Location: Argyll, Scotland
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Posted: Thu May 28, 2009 7:50 pm Post subject: |
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Thanks for that, Olle! Although, by Bob Thomas' standards this one isn't all that early! The story of how he came to learn to make bagpipes, as opposed to collecting and playing them, is a real gem and I must write it out one of these days if I can find the appropriate thread and the time. He recounted this story to me himself and it gives some insight into what a character he was. I've heard people who never actually meet him say, "He was a bit of a rogue, wasn't he?" But he really nurtured that reputation simply because it was colourful; for in reality he was kind, generous and honest to friends. |
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DRUMALBAN
Joined: 14 May 2009 Posts: 41 Location: Argyll, Scotland
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Posted: Fri May 29, 2009 9:11 am Post subject: |
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I have often wondered how Bob Thomas got access to a sackpipa to copy as I don't believe he ever visited Sweden during his time in Europe. But a possible explanation has occured to me. It is just speculation, but I'll write it here because someone else might have more to contribute.
The photograph of the sackpipa from Katto, reproduced here under another thread, appears to be Bob's model for the sackpipa which I have. This photo, in black and white, appears to be quite old itself and it is taken from a site of Hubert Boone. Bob did in fact visit Hubert Boone and Viktor Nerinx in Belgium. Is it possible that Hubert had this particular photo in his collection at that time and that Bob simply used this very picture as his model? That could explain why his sackpipa is, in its external details, an almost exact replica of this Katto sackpipa, yet the scale is distinctly major and the holes are perhaps more in keeping with Bob's usual proportions for a small chanter. The only reasonable text-book available at that time (of which both Bob and I had copies; I still have mine from 1961!) was "Bagpipes" by Anthony Baines (Oxford University Press 1960). This excellent tome has a passage on the sackpipa but no picture of one. It does state that "The reed appears to have been single". Bob customarily deployed double reeds in chanters; single reeds in drones. The reed that he used in this chanter is obviously one actually made for a drone on one of his other small bagpipes, but set down quite deeply into the socket. |
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Olle Site Admin
Joined: 21 Oct 2006 Posts: 435 Location: Uppsala, Sweden
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Posted: Fri May 29, 2009 10:32 am Post subject: |
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That sounds like a very possible explanation.
Also, if you only have experience with single reeds for drones, you are in for a surprise when trying to make them work for a chanter. A pletora of new issues pop up that most west European pipers (who have single reeds only in their drones) never encountered before, since their single reeds only have to work for one note. On top of that, Bob Thomas must've been rather isolated in those days, in his work on Swedish pipes. No NSAA forum to go to for help ... _________________ Info on Swedish bagpipes at http://olle.gallmo.se/sackpipa
More about me at http://olle.gallmo.se |
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DRUMALBAN
Joined: 14 May 2009 Posts: 41 Location: Argyll, Scotland
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Posted: Thu Jun 18, 2009 9:26 am Post subject: |
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I am interested in obtaining a new, single-drone sackpipa and would be willing to sell or trade my "historical" model, made by Bob Thomas in the 1970s. I am especially interested in a good quality chanter and perhaps a matching drone, as I can easily make the other pieces. |
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texasbagpiper Senior User
Joined: 24 Oct 2006 Posts: 352 Location: Texas
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