Norden Sackpipa Association of the Americas (NSAA) Forum Index Norden Sackpipa Association of the Americas (NSAA)
Jerry Revelle in memoriam
 
 FAQFAQ   SearchSearch   MemberlistMemberlist   UsergroupsUsergroups   RegisterRegister 
 ProfileProfile   Log in to check your private messagesLog in to check your private messages   Log inLog in 

Sources for sheet music

 
This forum is locked: you cannot post, reply to, or edit topics.   This topic is locked: you cannot edit posts or make replies.    Norden Sackpipa Association of the Americas (NSAA) Forum Index -> Norden Sackpipa Association of the Americas (NSAA)
View previous topic :: View next topic  
Author Message
Aaron K. Holt
Senior User


Joined: 01 Nov 2006
Posts: 291
Location: Pennsylvania

PostPosted: Wed May 02, 2007 12:24 pm    Post subject: Sources for sheet music Reply with quote

I picked up a few CDs from Hurv Record's "Historical Recordings of Swedish Music" lately: "Fiddle Tunes from Orsa" played by Gössa Anders Andersson, and "Pastoral Music from Malung" and "Troskarilekar" with Anders Rosen (not part of the series, but a very good album on the same label).

If you're looking for some musical inspiration the albums in this series are worth their weight in gold (I was *very* happy to see a lot of tunes from Orsa "efter Blecko Anders Olsson", I haven't yet heard a tune with his name that I don't like).

The Point: I think some of the tunes in these collections would fit the bagpipe (and some have already been recorded elsewhere on the bagpipe). Does anyone know of a good source to find Swedish sheet music? I think Olle and I once talked about Svenska Låtar (is that right Olle?) having collections grouped by region, I recall having trouble figuring out how to order from them.

We should (via the tune page maybe) pool our sheet music. Provided that it wouldn't raise copyright issues. Anders and Jan already have a few offerings of this sort, and Olle's site has lots of music. It would be a *huge* help to new pipers to have a big tunebook of music that will fit on the Swedish bagpipe.

Alban Faust had a link to a digital tunebook, with tunes organized by country of origin, type, key etc. but it is not online anymore, and besides, the tunes didn't all necessarily fit on the bagpipe.

I really want to start learning Swedish soon, I think that may break down some of my trouble. Only a fraction of the material available about Swedish music is translated into English.
_________________
Aaron
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail
Olle
Site Admin


Joined: 21 Oct 2006
Posts: 435
Location: Uppsala, Sweden

PostPosted: Wed May 02, 2007 2:51 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

There is one place in particular to look for tune books and writings about Swedish traditional music, if you are willing to buy them: http://www.visarkiv.se/. I will add that to the sticky topic about links to interesting sites.

The difficulty of creating a collection specifically for Swedish pipes is that it is not entirely clear what is playable or not. It depends on the pipes and on the piper. For example, some pipes have a D# at the bottom, some have a D, some don't have a thumb hole for the right hand thumb, some may have a key for an extra note above the top hand thumb hole, some pipers can reach extra notes using fancy playing techniques which won't work on all pipes, etc.

So, where to draw the limit? What does "music that will fit on the Swedish bagpipe" mean?
_________________
Info on Swedish bagpipes at http://olle.gallmo.se/sackpipa
More about me at http://olle.gallmo.se
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail Visit poster's website
Aaron K. Holt
Senior User


Joined: 01 Nov 2006
Posts: 291
Location: Pennsylvania

PostPosted: Wed May 02, 2007 4:11 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

At first I thought maybe we could sort them by the type of chanter they are playable on. But that would be unnecessary extra work.

If someone can fit a tune onto a Swedish chanter of any kind, then the range is close enough that it will warrant being included. There will still be some effort on the piper's part to find a tune that will fit his/her specific chanter, but this would be considerably less effort than that expended by sifting through the very large amount of tunes that don't fit on any chanter of any type.

Example scenario: I look through sheet music for several hours and find four tunes that I like and will fit on my chanter, I then add that information to our pool and save someone else several hours to find those same four tunes. Maybe I can play all of them, but another piper can only fit two of those four on his chanter. Now it's only a matter of eliminating two tunes on his/her part, rather than several hundred. That is a simplified scenario, but you get the idea.

I could maintain a tune database or something like that. Maybe on the current server, or if not, I can get server space on my own. That way you would have several search parameters to choose from (title, origin, key, type, etc.), further eliminating the search time.

By the way Olle, on visarkiv.se, it's the Svenska Låtar series that I was thinking of. They also have "Svenska vallvisor och hornlåtar" collected by Richard Dybeck, which is a very good collection. Those were the books that I thinking of. Do you know if they accept overseas orders though? None of those books appear on the English mirror site.
_________________
Aaron
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail
Olle
Site Admin


Joined: 21 Oct 2006
Posts: 435
Location: Uppsala, Sweden

PostPosted: Wed May 02, 2007 4:59 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
Do you know if they accept overseas orders though? None of those books appear on the English mirror site.


I would be very surprised if they don't.
_________________
Info on Swedish bagpipes at http://olle.gallmo.se/sackpipa
More about me at http://olle.gallmo.se
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail Visit poster's website
matt shipp



Joined: 25 Mar 2007
Posts: 2
Location: Japan/Wisconsin

PostPosted: Thu May 03, 2007 1:49 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hi Everyone,
This will be my first post other than a short intro so let me just say that I am an absolute beginner to piping and the world for Swedish music in general. I just purchased a set of pipes from Boris Farve and although it is one of his older sets, the pipes are simply beautiful and I think they are great (now my wife and kids wish I could make them sound beautiful, but that’s another story).

Anyway, from the perspective of a beginner, such a resource would be appreciated. I cherish Olle’s site and such resources make learning seem so much easier.

With that Aaron, let me be the first to encourage you to keep the information coming. Those of us just starting out are hungry for it. I appreciate being able to learn from those that have been down this road.

Hats off to you guys,
Matt
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Yahoo Messenger
jerry revelle
Senior User


Joined: 24 Oct 2006
Posts: 115
Location: Elk Mound, Wisconsin USA (rural)

PostPosted: Thu May 03, 2007 3:16 am    Post subject: Music Source By County (Swedish) Reply with quote

I wonder whether the Folkmsikenshus in Rattvik might be accumulating something like this. The last time I spoke with Per Gudmundson I believe he indicated that was their aspiration. An email to Per or Ola Backstrom at http://www.folkmusikenshus.se/ might turn up something. They both speak English better than I do.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Visit poster's website
Aaron K. Holt
Senior User


Joined: 01 Nov 2006
Posts: 291
Location: Pennsylvania

PostPosted: Thu May 03, 2007 12:26 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I still have a good amount of music that I haven't learned yet, but as I'm constantly learning new tunes, it would be nice to know that there is more that I can hope to learn. Especially since I don't personally know any other musicians who play Swedish music.

My only reservation about putting together something like the database I mentioned is that this may frowned upon by traditionalists. Which would be completely understandable. For generations this music was passed on from teacher to student, or from musician to musician. That adds a great deal of cultural value to those possessing knowledge of the music. Now here comes Aaron Holt, an American (of English descent at that!) with funny ideas about a web database where people can mechanically retreive music in a cultural vacuum as it were.

I've seen a lot of internet based tune books so I admit that I'm slightly exaggerating my concerns. But still, I wouldn't want to cheapen something that I personally hold in such high regard. Otherwise I think it's a good idea, a large source of specifically 'pipable' tunes would be as useful to the expert as to the novice.
_________________
Aaron
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail
Yuri
Senior User


Joined: 16 Dec 2006
Posts: 149
Location: New Zealand

PostPosted: Fri May 04, 2007 11:22 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Aaron, I have to disappoint you.
Try to imagine a Russian-Hungarian-German-Estonian-Ukrainian-Latvian-Turkish musician (that's me) trying to play , say , a 13th century French melody. or two melodies together on a pipe that very probably didn't exist at the time.
Yeah, all right , I'm shamed.
My point is, musicians are a weird bunch. (as if you didn't know) If it makes sense musically, don't have hangups about it in other areas.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Visit poster's website
Olle
Site Admin


Joined: 21 Oct 2006
Posts: 435
Location: Uppsala, Sweden

PostPosted: Fri May 04, 2007 5:04 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Aaron, I think your reservation is a weak one. OK, people might argue about details in, and quality of, the uploaded material (maybe each tune should have room for discussions, like Wikipedia does) and someone might even frown upon the very idea of writing music down, but why would they frown upon the site provider? Don't shoot the messenger ...
_________________
Info on Swedish bagpipes at http://olle.gallmo.se/sackpipa
More about me at http://olle.gallmo.se
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail Visit poster's website
Aaron K. Holt
Senior User


Joined: 01 Nov 2006
Posts: 291
Location: Pennsylvania

PostPosted: Fri May 04, 2007 6:35 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

As it stands, this is what I've been thinking about:

The database will regard the Leif Eriksson chanter in A/E as typical, (though G/D information will be included parenthetically as well as transposed files).

The database would be accessed by an .html form with several searchable fields: Title, Type, Origin, Composer, Source/Credits, PDF/GIF (A or G), MIDI (A or G), deviants*, and notes/comments.

*the devants field will contain those notes that do not fit on the "typical" chanter. i.e. D#(C#), C#(B), Gnat(Fnat), quarter tones, and anything above top E(D) or below bottom E(D).

Users would be able to view, filter, and sort data within a specific querry. I would imagine these functions would be most useful in quickly isolating tunes that fit a specific chanter type/playing ability.

There would also be a submission form that people who want to contribute can fill out and upload.

I'll be taking a database-driven web design course later this year. I also hope to secure my first copies from the Svenska Låtar collection in the near future (before new year's). But right now I can get to work on midi files of tunes that I know. I already have a lot of music transcribed. I have music from Olle's site (obviously), some of the tunes in Alban's Bordunsmusik book will fit, but not all of them. In addition, I have several tune books that I got from Julian Goodacre and those tunes that I've figured out on my own (It may be best to wait on some of these, especially those that can be found in Svenska Låtar).

That's my plan. Of course there will be new things to consider as I get going, but that's the rough idea.
_________________
Aaron
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail
JP WNC



Joined: 21 Dec 2006
Posts: 26
Location: Asheville, NC (USA)

PostPosted: Sat May 05, 2007 6:42 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Aaron, the idea of collecting and organizing songs specifically fitted to the pipes is a great one. Using a database that you can search with various criteria seems a little excessive, but will probably make for a good class project. If you go that route I'd recommend creating a search system where the music list is accessed by chanter ability and not song as the chanter is the limiting factor. That way if you have say, a chanter with seven finger holes and a Bb/A, C#/C and F extensions you can choose those those options and the database will display songs which not only work on a six finger chanter, but a seven finger chanter, seven finger with Bb/A & C#/C, and seven finger with Bb/A and C#/C and F

So hypothetically for the list of options below, each tier would display more songs than the one before it:
G/D with six finger holes,
G/D with seven finger holes,
G/D with seven finger holes + Bb/A & C#/C,
G/D with seven finger holes + Bb/A & C#/C + F,
G/D with seven finger holes + Bb/A & C#/C + F + High E

- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -

My original intention of posting was actually to make a suggestion about the tunes page and this seemed like a good place to put it. For the purpose of learning a song by ear, it is very hard to pick something up at full speed, which is why when you're learning a song from someone (physically sitting next to you) they slow the song down to help you learn, then resume playing the song at full speed so you learn how it sounds at full tempo. Since the tunes page appears to be there to help spread songs around, it would be greatly beneficial if two versions of the songs were posted...one that was played slowly for people to learn the notes, and one at regular tempo for people to learn the song.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Aaron K. Holt
Senior User


Joined: 01 Nov 2006
Posts: 291
Location: Pennsylvania

PostPosted: Mon May 07, 2007 1:39 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

In the end, I think you should be able to search by any criteria whatsoever. I had seen a handful of pages where people had collected tunes with pdf/gif scores, and midi files. Naturally, since each tune has a name, key, place of origin etc. the site designer formatted the tune info and file links as a table with that data arranged in columns. I always hated sifting through a site that 20 or so pages of these tables with 40 tunes per page, I couldn't easily locate anything that I was looking for (and that's if I already knew it was there).

My idea was that if you're going to take the time put the info into a table, why not add a user interface so that someone can actually specifiy the criteria that they have in mind and click on *one* link to view it, rather than click through fifteen and only hope to find what they're after. After all, that's all a database of this type really is - a table whose displayed contents can be specified. It takes less work to make one page containing a search interface than to populate a table across 20 pages as I've seen elsewhere. And most importantly, it takes the user much less time to find what he/she is looking for. That way, you can get the info exactly as you specified in your message above, and someone else looking specifically for a midi of say... Brudmarsch efter Nedergårds Lars can find it directly (now he may still have to worry about the fact that Lars may have written *several* Brudmarshcar, but...)

The good thing about midi files is that you can adjust the playback tempo and they're very small files. Midi files are great for learning by ear. Besides, Linking two versions of the .mp3 files would eat up a lot of Jerry's server space.

All of this information would be added somewhere on the tunes site. The thing is, you're not going to get a true *performance* out of a midi file, we've all discussed variations of timing, ornamentation, etc. in Swedish music - that part is up to the musician and his/her capibility, but they'll have a solid starting point for learning, and a resource that they can continually go back to as they grow as pipers.
_________________
Aaron
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail
Olle
Site Admin


Joined: 21 Oct 2006
Posts: 435
Location: Uppsala, Sweden

PostPosted: Mon May 07, 2007 4:08 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
Brudmarsch efter Nedergårds Lars can find it directly (now he may still have to worry about the fact that Lars may have written *several* Brudmarshcar, but...


Sidepoint: A tune "efter" (after) someone does not imply that that someone wrote it, only that he/she played it.
_________________
Info on Swedish bagpipes at http://olle.gallmo.se/sackpipa
More about me at http://olle.gallmo.se
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail Visit poster's website
Aaron K. Holt
Senior User


Joined: 01 Nov 2006
Posts: 291
Location: Pennsylvania

PostPosted: Mon May 07, 2007 4:53 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Yes good point, sorry about that.
I read that tunes usually have no title to speak of, only "polska", "vals" etc., and most of the old-time musicians didn't see the tunes they played as formal compositions but rather independent variations on a type. So adding a "title" field may not be an entirely accurate description of the content, but it would be close enough that most folks would get the idea.

(Olle, did I get that right - is *brudmarschar* the correct plural?)
_________________
Aaron
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail
Olle
Site Admin


Joined: 21 Oct 2006
Posts: 435
Location: Uppsala, Sweden

PostPosted: Mon May 07, 2007 7:04 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Almost. "Brudmarscher". :-)
_________________
Info on Swedish bagpipes at http://olle.gallmo.se/sackpipa
More about me at http://olle.gallmo.se
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail Visit poster's website
Display posts from previous:   
This forum is locked: you cannot post, reply to, or edit topics.   This topic is locked: you cannot edit posts or make replies.    Norden Sackpipa Association of the Americas (NSAA) Forum Index -> Norden Sackpipa Association of the Americas (NSAA) All times are GMT + 1 Hour
Page 1 of 1

 
Jump to:  
You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot vote in polls in this forum


Powered by phpBB © 2001, 2005 phpBB Group