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bag leather and rivet/grommet sources???

 
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chad_fross



Joined: 02 Feb 2007
Posts: 37
Location: Seoul Korea

PostPosted: Sun Feb 04, 2007 6:33 am    Post subject: bag leather and rivet/grommet sources??? Reply with quote

I have notice a few pics of rivetted bags on here. I am very interested in making rivetted bags. As I have just completed my first sackpipa (only the wooden parts, minus the mouthpiece) I am in search of a source of bag leather and the proper rivets and tools needed to rivet the bag. If any of you who have made these rivetted bags could tell me where you purchased your leather and rivets, I would great appreciate it Smile
Chad
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texasbagpiper
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Joined: 24 Oct 2006
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Location: Texas

PostPosted: Sun Feb 04, 2007 8:49 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I use tandy leather... www.tandyleather.com
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chad_fross



Joined: 02 Feb 2007
Posts: 37
Location: Seoul Korea

PostPosted: Mon Feb 05, 2007 1:32 am    Post subject: tandy leather Reply with quote

Thanks Seth,
I just looked at Tandy leather online, they have everything. But they have so many different types and cuts and sizes and weights of leather that I don't know which one I should choose? Splits, bends, sides, 3 ounce, 4 ounce 6 ounce...........which is best suited, which cut/type/weight/ and size dimensions do you order to make bags? Also, the rivets that they have, which length should I use to make the bag?
I don't want to order rivets that have shanks which are too short or two long.
Thanks again Seth,
Chad
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texasbagpiper
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Joined: 24 Oct 2006
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Location: Texas

PostPosted: Tue Feb 06, 2007 4:16 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I use the shortest rivets they sell... As far as the leather I think its just tanned calf hide used for chaps... I have a tandy nearby so I pick mine out by hand so I can do the suck test on the leather to make sure its not too porous.... Seth
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favrepipes



Joined: 26 Oct 2006
Posts: 63
Location: Vancouver

PostPosted: Thu Feb 08, 2007 11:32 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hi Chad,

The best way to buy leather is to go directly to the supplier and test it for airtightness, as well as to inspect it for any imperfections on the surface. I realize that you may not be in an area that supplies such leather in which case you are relying on tried and trusted sources. I have used Tandy motorcycle chap sides and they seem reliable. While the leather itself is generally staunch, it is not as supple as some of the pipe bags that I've encountered. They usually don't sell less than a side which costs anywhere from $120-200 US. As for weight, 3.5-4 oz is what I generally seek out.

I had a long talk about tanning processes and origins of leather with a seller and apparently the recipe used has a lot to do with airtightness and life span. He informed me that even the same recipe doesn't guarantee that the result will always be equal. This is why testing it personnally is the better way to go if you can.

Best,
Bo
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chad_fross



Joined: 02 Feb 2007
Posts: 37
Location: Seoul Korea

PostPosted: Thu Feb 08, 2007 1:37 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thanks Bo and Seth. I really don't have any way to get to a tandy dealer. I wish I could, but I'm literally half a world away from any tandy leather place. I don't suppose I could prosition someone to take money from me next time they go shopping for leather? Maybe pick up a side for me? I'll of course pay for shipping. Any takers? or too risky?
Thanks again gentlemen.
Or on the other hand.........maybe it would be more cost effective right now for me (I'm sure a side is not exactly light) as I don't need a whole lot of bags right now...........maybe I could commision someone to make a few bags for me.......say maybe 2 or 3 bags for now? I don't really care if they are rivetted or stitched. As long as they hold air.
Anyone interested in making a few bags for me, let me know through email if you can do it, and "wages" you would require for the effort.
Chad
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JNelson



Joined: 15 May 2007
Posts: 19
Location: move around, Florida, Alaska, Texas, Kenya

PostPosted: Fri Jun 08, 2007 12:50 am    Post subject: pelts Reply with quote

does anyone have experience using a strait up pelt for a bag?
I am considering making a "floor bag" for the guys at school to play at intramural games. I want to make it as obnoxious and fun as possible. I am considering making the thing out of a raccoon pelt and leave the fur outside with the tail hanging down the back. any advice?
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Yuri
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Joined: 16 Dec 2006
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Location: New Zealand

PostPosted: Fri Jun 08, 2007 6:22 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thing about hair out sort of bags is that they tend to be a bit more difficult to hold than hair in. A lot of E.European folk pipes use the entire skin of an animal, but rather few are left with the hair showing. I never tried them myself, but by what I read, they tend to be a bit slippery.
Mind you, that's what I read about using leather with the shiny side out, and my last bag is made just like that (I got sick of the really dirty appearance of my previous one, so made one with the shiny one showing), and it works fine. No slippage.
In any case, try to use a male one, as female pelts have a couple of rows of nipples, and they leak air.
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Olle
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Joined: 21 Oct 2006
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Location: Uppsala, Sweden

PostPosted: Fri Jun 08, 2007 9:15 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Here is an old picture of Jan "Liraman" Winter and me, with my Macedonian Gajda.
.
Note that even the head is still attached.

I can confirm that it is somewhat slippery to play. It is also a very big bag - takes a lot of effort just to fill it up.
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JNelson



Joined: 15 May 2007
Posts: 19
Location: move around, Florida, Alaska, Texas, Kenya

PostPosted: Sun Jul 29, 2007 1:19 am    Post subject: coon bag Reply with quote

Thanks for the advice, maybe I will put a miniture floor jersey on the bag to help with the slipping. Hey Olle, I want to keep the head intact with the chanter coming out of the mouth of the raccoon, but I am not sure how to do that with all the holes in the head, eyes ears ect. how does your Gajda address this issue?
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Yuri
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PostPosted: Sun Jul 29, 2007 6:32 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I'd turn a proper stock, and carve the upper suface to receive the top half of the scull, sort of sawn off somewhere across the mid-line. (carefully, since they tend to be rather brittle. That means a fine blade, too)
You can stick the lower jaw onto the underside, too.
Olle?
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JNelson



Joined: 15 May 2007
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PostPosted: Tue Jul 31, 2007 2:23 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

hhmm,
I have the pelt but not the skull, I was considering adding shape to the head by inserting something later... should I make the stock extra long to reach out the mouth and then tie it into the neck? I was thinking of adding foam insulation or something to give the head shape. great stuff comes to mind, it expands pretty well, probably make a way for the stock to be removed without interfering with the foam. let me know if anyone else has any other ideas.
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Yuri
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PostPosted: Tue Jul 31, 2007 7:52 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

You know, I didn't quite get that. And I rather suspect that Swedish-speakers got it even less.
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Olle
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PostPosted: Tue Jul 31, 2007 1:50 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
I'd turn a proper stock, and carve the upper suface to receive the top half of the scull, sort of sawn off somewhere across the mid-line. (carefully, since they tend to be rather brittle. That means a fine blade, too)


I suspect that is how my Gajda was made. Possibly it is all wood (but, if so, it is a a very good replica of the original bone structure).
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JNelson



Joined: 15 May 2007
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PostPosted: Wed Aug 01, 2007 9:43 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

ok thanks, I guess I'll make due without the skull and just shape the stock to be extra long and tie into the neck. sorry for the confusion. "Great Stuff" is a spray foam used for filling gaps and insulating windows. it expands as it drys. If I sprayed some inside the head of the raccoon after I have installed the stock, it would expand and push the face out into it's proper shape as it dries. it's lighter weight than the original skull but may end up looking messier.
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Yuri
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PostPosted: Wed Aug 01, 2007 11:58 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Ah, now it's clear.
What I'd do is this: plug up the neck behind where the head part stops. (around where the vertebraes would start.) Then fill the head part with the stuff, as you wrote. (I suspect it's something like polyurethan foam, they use that ifn filling boat compartments, so they don't sink even if scuttled.) Then, when the foam set, drill or cut a hole into it that will receive the wooden stock. This way it's more manageable and predictable. You probably can also mold the head around the foam more easily. You'll need an opening somewhere else to get the plug out, of course. If you already sewn up the back, it's probably too late for this way, unless you just tied it up.
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JNelson



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PostPosted: Thu Aug 02, 2007 8:26 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Yeah, I'm thinking I will just make a plug for the back side and tie that in rather than sew it up.
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JNelson



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PostPosted: Sat Aug 04, 2007 6:38 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I tied everything in last night and tried out some reeds I had lying around. I added an extra drone and soon found that I had a whole lot less air than I thought I had, so I will probably be sewing in an extra length of leather along the stomach to add some volume to the bag. I don't know if this will work or not. Should I just take out the extra drone?[/img]
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Yuri
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PostPosted: Sun Aug 05, 2007 5:53 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I'd check first if the bag is truly airtight. As in plug in the stocks, bow it up and press hard. Then watch what happens. You can add normal bag seasoning to it, since it's hair out , if it needs it.
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JNelson



Joined: 15 May 2007
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Location: move around, Florida, Alaska, Texas, Kenya

PostPosted: Sat Aug 18, 2007 8:19 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

well, I've ended up doing what I had hoped I wouldn't need to, I'm sewing in an extra strip of leather in the chest and rump area. It should give me a lot more volume of air, as well as give me something more to hold onto, but it greatly increases the complexity of the assembly. next time, I think I'll pay a little more and find a pelt with a bigger girth. probably have to season now that I have the extra seams in the bag. it's been a good experience so far though.
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Whisteul



Joined: 02 Jul 2007
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Location: Lille, Nord France.

PostPosted: Fri Aug 31, 2007 11:41 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Could someone explain me what's the interest of using rivet-grommet for a bag instead of sewing it ? What are the differences ?
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texasbagpiper
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PostPosted: Sat Sep 01, 2007 6:09 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Whisteul wrote:
Could someone explain me what's the interest of using rivet-grommet for a bag instead of sewing it ? What are the differences ?


I think riveting is easier than sewing. You punch the holes with a leather punch then put the rivet's in and squeeze them togather with rivet pliers or tap them with a hammer if you don't have the pliers...

I don't mind sewing a bag but I like to stay away from it if at all possible, E.J. Jones taught me to make pipebags( he uses rivets) although its pretty easy if you want to try it yourself, but it helps to have someone help you the first time...

Another thing I've never had a leak from a riveted bag but I have had a leak from a sewn bag through one of the stitches...

Cheers, Seth Hamon
www.hamonbagpipes.com
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