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Experiences from Seth Hamon's synthetic reeds
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texasbagpiper
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PostPosted: Mon Apr 11, 2011 8:20 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Aaron K. Holt wrote:
Keep in mind also that Alban (and Leif too I think) use Metric and not English units, I know that there were a number of plans out there that had the drawings "translated" into English measurements, so I believe that wider stocks are a bit of an Americanism - that is, unless I'm wrong. Smile


Leif and Bors Anders have large stock bores. I remember the Leif set having a stock with a bore larger than mine but close to it. I just walked over and looked at the paperwork where I measured a Leif set years ago, I do this with every set of pipes I can get my hands on, and the stock was close to 20mm and it appeared to have a taper to it. Seth
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Aaron K. Holt
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PostPosted: Mon Apr 11, 2011 8:22 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

A taper, that's interesting. How much?
Do you use English or Metric measurements? Metric bits are (sometimes) a little harder to come by here in the states.
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texasbagpiper
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PostPosted: Mon Apr 11, 2011 8:57 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Aaron K. Holt wrote:
A taper, that's interesting. How much?
Do you use English or Metric measurements? Metric bits are (sometimes) a little harder to come by here in the states.


Its only a few mm's. I use gun drills for all my bores, Metric for the Swedish chanters and the wide bore drones, Inches for everything else. Seth
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Anders Jackson
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PostPosted: Fri May 20, 2011 9:45 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

You should use metrics, like rest of the world Smile

If it makes any difference, it shouldn't be that much using metrics och Imperial units. For instance, an 1/2" combination wrench is between a 12 and 13 mm wrench. So I always used a 13 mm instead of the propper 1/2" on old SAAB motors, wich used english Triumph motors and Imperial inces . Smile

This page had good(?) information between Imperial and metric Hex key (you know, like the ones IKEA uses)
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hex_key

But really, you should use metric ISO standards, just look how many non-ISO standards there are http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Screw_thread compared to http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ISO_metric_screw_thread

When I think of this, just ignore my rant. Smile
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texasbagpiper
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PostPosted: Fri May 20, 2011 11:23 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Anders Jackson wrote:
You should use metrics, like rest of the world Smile



Most of my bagpipe plans that I have aquired over the years are all in Inches so all my tooling is in inches as well, so to switch to metric, I would have to buy all new gun drills, etc. I actually don't use metric anymore on my Swedish pipes either. I've switched since my last post on this topic. Seth
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Anders Jackson
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PostPosted: Sat May 21, 2011 12:23 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Well, it was mostly a rant anyway...

But there shouldn't be that hard to konvert between. Except some few strange meashures, like 12.5 milimeters Smile
And by the way, it isn't me that makes the instruments. So please, just ignore me on this Smile

(I belive in that it is the doers that make the calls, like in Open Source computer programs)
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Jim Little



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PostPosted: Thu May 26, 2011 4:43 pm    Post subject: Synth-pipa reeds in Bors Anders pipes Reply with quote

I got a set of Synth-pipa reeds in the mail from Seth yesterday and of course immediately tried them out in my Bors Anders pipes, both E/A and D/G.

The stems (with teflon tape wrap) fit in to the pipe bores just fine.

In the E/A chanter the scale is good with the reed pushed all the way in. I might need to file the top E hole a small bit.

For the D/G chanter I left the reed out about 1/8 inch from the the top of the pipe (in my experience this pipe needs a slightly longer reed). The scale is fine.

The bottom line of all this is that Synth-pipa reeds work just fine in Bors Anders E/A and D/G pipe sets (drones too) without a lot of adjustment.

Thanks Seth for a job well done in developing these reeds.
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Anders Jackson
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PostPosted: Sat May 28, 2011 7:02 pm    Post subject: Re: Synth-pipa reeds in Bors Anders pipes Reply with quote

Jim Little wrote:
I got a set of Synth-pipa reeds in the mail from Seth yesterday and of course immediately tried them out in my Bors Anders pipes, both E/A and D/G.

The bottom line of all this is that Synth-pipa reeds work just fine in Bors Anders E/A and D/G pipe sets (drones too) without a lot of adjustment.

Thanks Seth for a job well done in developing these reeds.

Great news, Jim! And Great job, Seth!
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brynley



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PostPosted: Tue Jun 07, 2011 7:36 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I also received a set of Synth-pipa reeds from Seth, and installed them in my Kehrly pipes, in the Erickson style. I could immediately get the E/A chanter(s), and drone tuned up, stable, and running, only had to add teflon tape. A marked difference from before, when as a newcomer, trying to learn to make cane reeds that would work,( but never very well), meant the pipes were collecting dust! cough! The reed also works well with the practice-windcap+chanter that came with the set. My D/G chanter seems to have a narrower bore, and seemed to like the reed, but I can,t be bothered to peel off teflon , so I,m staying with the E/A, until I maybe purchase another Synth reed for it. (Or maybe Seth will send me one for all the publicity! lol) javascript:emoticon('Wink') So thumbs up on these reeds as far as this newbie is concerned!
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Olle
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PostPosted: Tue Jun 14, 2011 11:35 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I just came back from a workshop I held in Viljandi, Estonia over the weekend. I had my usual pipes with me, one mouth blown in A and my bellows blown in G. All students played torupill (Estonian bagpipes) which are in G, so I also brought an extra mouthblown set in G which I had set up with plastic reeds - Seths reed in the chanter and an Ezee-drone reed in the drone (too narrow bore for Seth's reeds).

I was supposed to play during a presentation on Friday night, but did not have much time to prepare since I jumped on the wrong bus in Tallinn and therefore took a non-voluntary detour through Tartu. It was very hot in Estonia this weekend, the buses had no air conditioning and stupid me sat on the sunny side, so after 4 hours busride I was soaking wet.

At the presentation I took up my usual mouth blown set to play some tunes for the students. It didn't make a sound. Complete noise refusal. That does not happen often, but after that bus ride I guess I should not have been surprised. I picked up the spare, plastic reeded set, instead and it worked like a charm. No tuning required.

Thanks Seth, you saved my day!
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Aaron K. Holt
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PostPosted: Thu Jun 16, 2011 5:29 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Four hours in a hot bus with no air conditioning, that's real dedication!
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texasbagpiper
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PostPosted: Tue Jun 21, 2011 4:02 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Olle Gällmo wrote:

Thanks Seth, you saved my day!


Thanks Olle. I see you survived the sweaty bus ride. Mr. Green
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Black Rose



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PostPosted: Mon Aug 01, 2011 5:54 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Anders Jackson wrote:
You should use metrics, like rest of the world Smile

If it makes any difference, it shouldn't be that much using metrics och Imperial units. For instance, an 1/2" combination wrench is between a 12 and 13 mm wrench. So I always used a 13 mm instead of the propper 1/2" on old SAAB motors, wich used english Triumph motors and Imperial inces . Smile

Smile


The difference being, drilling precise, sometimes historical holes as opposed to using a close-enough wrench to loosen a bolt that already exists. If you were trying to machine a replacement bolt for your Triumph you would make one exactly to the original specs, not a metric equivalent somewhere between too tight, and too loose, or too long or too short, or particularly with a thread that just about matches the original cylinder head it screws into.

Having said that, if the original design is metric, use metric.
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Anders Jackson
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PostPosted: Mon Aug 01, 2011 10:53 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Black Rose wrote:
Anders Jackson wrote:
You should use metrics, like rest of the world Smile

If it makes any difference, it shouldn't be that much using metrics och Imperial units. For instance, an 1/2" combination wrench is between a 12 and 13 mm wrench. So I always used a 13 mm instead of the propper 1/2" on old SAAB motors, wich used english Triumph motors and Imperial inces . Smile

Smile


The difference being, drilling precise, sometimes historical holes as opposed to using a close-enough wrench to loosen a bolt that already exists. If you were trying to machine a replacement bolt for your Triumph you would make one exactly to the original specs, not a metric equivalent somewhere between too tight, and too loose, or too long or too short, or particularly with a thread that just about matches the original cylinder head it screws into.

Having said that, if the original design is metric, use metric.


Of course. The close enogugh works with wrenches, not bolts and nuts. Goes without saying, doesn't it?

But this is starting to be OT now. Smile
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Folke



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PostPosted: Mon Sep 26, 2011 8:17 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I have used my "Texas reeds" now for a coupple of months. I play an Alban Faust set and I had the reed modified (by Seth) to fit the faust drone.

I mostly play my bagpipe in some sort of context with other people, and it has ben nerv wrecking to do so with cane reeds. (Maybe because I'm lousy at making cane reeds. Who knows?) Often playing maybe one or two tunes on the bagpipe, leaving it untouched for the most of the gig with all the tuning issues that arise in that situation. Warmed up pipe (in tune) getting cold. Not knowing if it will be in tune or not.

That problem is gone now Smile The sound when played alone is a little sharp (not as warm as cane reeds) but as I said I almost allways play with others and then they sound really good! The only thing I had to do to get them in tune was to wax the thumb hole a bit to lower the high e. Otherwise just move the O-ring (in baby steps) untill u get in tune!

I really like them!

Cheers
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Black Rose



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PostPosted: Tue Apr 17, 2012 10:29 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Anders Jackson wrote:
Black Rose wrote:
Anders Jackson wrote:
You should use metrics, like rest of the world Smile

If it makes any difference, it shouldn't be that much using metrics och Imperial units. For instance, an 1/2" combination wrench is between a 12 and 13 mm wrench. So I always used a 13 mm instead of the propper 1/2" on old SAAB motors, wich used english Triumph motors and Imperial inces . Smile

Smile


The difference being, drilling precise, sometimes historical holes as opposed to using a close-enough wrench to loosen a bolt that already exists. If you were trying to machine a replacement bolt for your Triumph you would make one exactly to the original specs, not a metric equivalent somewhere between too tight, and too loose, or too long or too short, or particularly with a thread that just about matches the original cylinder head it screws into.

Having said that, if the original design is metric, use metric.


Of course. The close enogugh works with wrenches, not bolts and nuts. Goes without saying, doesn't it?

But this is starting to be OT now. Smile


Wow. Very old news, but no it doesn't go without saying, since you seem to have been implying that you could just take metric plans and construct the instrument using SAE or Imperial or whatever tools and drills--drills in particular. Or for that matter, use a set of plans for an American made pipes based upon gun drills measured in thousanths of an inch and convert that into the nearest common metric equivalent. The bore in particular is rather more sensitive than that. So if you pull a set of plans calling for a 6mm bore use a 6mm drill. If it calls for a 5/32" bore, don't try to pull the nearest metric equivalent out of the tool rack and think it will work "good enough." It might work "good enough" in the end, after you modify the holes and abandon the original spacing and hole size plan to compensate.
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Anders Jackson
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PostPosted: Fri Apr 20, 2012 1:00 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Black Rose wrote:
Anders Jackson wrote:
Black Rose wrote:


The difference being, drilling precise, sometimes historical holes as opposed to using a close-enough wrench to loosen a bolt that already exists. If you were trying to machine a replacement bolt for your Triumph you would make one exactly to the original specs, not a metric equivalent somewhere between too tight, and too loose, or too long or too short, or particularly with a thread that just about matches the original cylinder head it screws into.

Having said that, if the original design is metric, use metric.


Of course. The close enogugh works with wrenches, not bolts and nuts. Goes without saying, doesn't it?

But this is starting to be OT now. Smile


Wow. Very old news, but no it doesn't go without saying, since you seem to have been implying that you could just take metric plans and construct the instrument using SAE or Imperial or whatever tools and drills--drills in particular. Or for that matter, use a set of plans for an American made pipes based upon gun drills measured in thousanths of an inch and convert that into the nearest common metric equivalent. The bore in particular is rather more sensitive than that. So if you pull a set of plans calling for a 6mm bore use a 6mm drill. If it calls for a 5/32" bore, don't try to pull the nearest metric equivalent out of the tool rack and think it will work "good enough." It might work "good enough" in the end, after you modify the holes and abandon the original spacing and hole size plan to compensate.


Ok, OT, but...

All original plans for swedish pipes are, as far as I know, swedish with metrics. But that said, I don't think that the original historical pipes was manufactured with that precision. So go with whatever works. Expect that you have to do some small adjustments from the plan when changing between metric and Imperial inces. But after that, you have your own plan to work with.
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Olle
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PostPosted: Sat May 12, 2012 12:54 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

For your information, I just posted the first recording I've made with Seths synthetic reed in the chanter. It is a polska from Småland, after a fiddler called Petter Dufva (1756-1836). He wrote down about 200 tunes in a note book which is dated 1807. Surprisingly many of them are playable on bagpipes. This is number 53 in the notebook:

http://soundcloud.com/ollegallmo/pd53
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texasbagpiper
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PostPosted: Fri Jun 01, 2012 8:08 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Olle Gällmo wrote:
For your information, I just posted the first recording I've made with Seths synthetic reed in the chanter. It is a polska from Småland, after a fiddler called Petter Dufva (1756-1836). He wrote down about 200 tunes in a note book which is dated 1807. Surprisingly many of them are playable on bagpipes. This is number 53 in the notebook:

http://soundcloud.com/ollegallmo/pd53


Wow that's fantastic. I need to link to this from my website. Very nice... Thanks, Seth
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Black Rose



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PostPosted: Mon Jul 09, 2012 9:09 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Black Rose wrote:
Some input not based on Swedish chanters yet but in designing my Zetland pipe over the past 40 years...


Turns out everything I learned designing and making Zetland chanters and reeds is extremely helpful and entirely compatible with the sackpipa. In fact, if I had the will to go at it again I know exactly how to stabilize the back D better, the Zetlands' biggest problem. That might also be fixed with Hamon style reeds, but the basic problem is starting out with a 1/4" bore more or less because the only reeds I had available were Highland tenor drone reeds, which I glued the tongues back on a bit and shortened. The reed is the basis of the chanter--something most "engineers" entirely overlook, and once you start with a basic reed you design the chanter to work with it. The problem with both Zetland and sackpipa, and all single-reed chanters, is a natural reed is incredibly variable, and everything about its dimensions alters both pitch and intonation of the chanter. Hence, in the old days, you saw huge holes in chanters, which were waxed or wrapped in waxed thread to tune, based upon the reed being used at the moment, and the condition of the reed at the time. Cane reeds also move open and closed, get harder and softer depending upon moisture and temperature, which also affects pitch and intonation.

In any case, if you have a copy of my Zetland reed adjustment/chanter tuning manual, it applies directly to sackpipa or any similar single reed system. Seth Hamon or somebody else in this forum I thought might have scrounged one up somewhere, which I would be happy to let everyone copy and distribute if you like. The original digital files I'm afraid, went obsolete about four computers ago and I don't think I can read them with anything today.


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