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Norden Sackpipa Association of the Americas (NSAA) Jerry Revelle in memoriam
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dunnp
Joined: 30 Oct 2011 Posts: 3 Location: Glasgow
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Posted: Thu Dec 15, 2011 11:00 am Post subject: Double holes |
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Sorry if this has been discussed but why do I keep seeing double holes on the top notes of a dg chanter but not ae? Is there some acoustical reason why it's not done as much on he ae? Also can bluetac be used to stop the double hole? |
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Olle Site Admin
Joined: 21 Oct 2006 Posts: 435 Location: Uppsala, Sweden
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Posted: Thu Dec 15, 2011 3:54 pm Post subject: |
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All chanters nowadays have double holes under the upper hand long finger (c/c# on an e/a chanter). No difference between D/G or E/A chanters there.
Double holes under the upper hand index finger are rare also on D/G chanters, but you are probably right that it is still more common than on E/A chanters. I really don't know why. I don't think there are any acoustical reasons.
I have double holes for the index finger on my D/G chanters, but I semi-permanently plugged the upper one (C#) with bees-wax since it is very rarely needed, given the type of tunes I typically play. A C# would make it possible to play tunes in D major, and D major is indeed a very common key, but you would in that case want a chanter with the D in the middle of the scale, not one where you have a D in both ends.
I have a corresponding double hole also on one of my E/A chanters, but there I actually sealed it permanently (with some kind of "liquid wood" - I don't know the English name for it). I had problems covering both holes with one finger.
I don't know what "bluetac" is, sorry. Sounds smurfy though. _________________ Info on Swedish bagpipes at http://olle.gallmo.se/sackpipa
More about me at http://olle.gallmo.se |
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JoshCobb
Joined: 25 Oct 2006 Posts: 54 Location: Hopkins, Minnesota
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Posted: Thu Dec 15, 2011 4:15 pm Post subject: |
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Bengt Sundberg made my E/A pipes in 1998 with holes for both index and middle fingers, thus making C# and D# possible. This was his own inclination, I believe, as I did not ask for them specifically. I do like the option of versatility that this offers, though I rarely use D#. |
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dunnp
Joined: 30 Oct 2011 Posts: 3 Location: Glasgow
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Posted: Thu Dec 15, 2011 5:03 pm Post subject: |
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Thanks for the replies. I meant the index finger double holes. In Looking at makers sites I more often see them on dg than ae chanters. I am still only learning the tunes on the wooden flute and also on the Swedish pipe app. But am getting closer to ordering a set.
Blue tac is like poster putty if that makes sense. I have used it to quickly seal keyed holes on wooden flutes to test them before repadding or when I remove keys. Also I have used it to fill in a little bit of a hole quickly on uilleann pipe chanters though it can get caught and come out and beeswax can be better. My uilleann drones also had no shut off switch so I had them plugged or not with this blue tac. I like it better than tape and can imagine it is easier to quickly put on and off. |
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Olle Site Admin
Joined: 21 Oct 2006 Posts: 435 Location: Uppsala, Sweden
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Posted: Thu Dec 15, 2011 7:28 pm Post subject: |
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The extra index finger hole would, as I said, facilitate playing in D major on a D/G chanter or E major on an E/A chanter. E is a much less common key in Swedish traditional music though, so maybe that explains why it is more rare on E/A chanters.
Also, to make such an extra hole useful, most players today would prefer to have some kind of band to move when covering/uncovering the hole, as most of us have for the long finger double hole. Rubber, leather or whatever. The problem with having such a band on the index finger hole is that it tends to get in the way for the thumb on the back side, at least on some chanters. _________________ Info on Swedish bagpipes at http://olle.gallmo.se/sackpipa
More about me at http://olle.gallmo.se |
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Black Rose
Joined: 10 Apr 2011 Posts: 44 Location: Minneapolis Minnesota USA
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Posted: Wed Mar 28, 2012 12:06 am Post subject: |
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From the fiddler or non-Swedish perspective, if you wanted to set up the pipes to frequently play from low-E or D orientation, a C# makes sense on the D chanter, as this would put you in compatibility with Scottish, Irish, and whistle-player orientation in D major to play with "normal" instruments in "normal" keys, the "normal" way from that perspective.
As Olle points out, Swedish pipe tunes aren't normally layed out across the chanter in that orientation. The tunes center around the middle note of the scale as the tonic, not the bell note of the chanter. So, an A/E chanter would find it pointless to have a D# because no "normal" instruments at "standard" pitch are going to play in the "abnormal" key of E major. E minor yes, but not major. That's why you see the C# appearing more frequently on the G/D chanters and not so much on the A/E chanters.
Another way of looking at it is this: The A/E chanter is the "normal" Swedish chanter in the "normal" Swedish key, and evolved out of averaging out the "normal" or most common sackpipa pitches and hole layout/tune layout. So in short, because pipers are almost universally despised by the academic and "civilized" musical world everywhere, this development took place in a pitch-base vacuum. The sackpipa base-pitch was the product of semi-random innovations concerning comfortable fingering spacing, available diameters of cane, whatever the bore was drilled out with, and whatever the consensus of the piping/pipemaking body of ancient players subjectively thought sounded "good." The modern pitch of the instrument came out of that tradition in an "odd" pitch that fiddles and accordions and most other "folk" or popular instruments don't easily accommodate and in some cases can't accommodate. (Unless you're a hardingfele, which ended up one note sharp from all the "normal" instruments as well.)
The G/D chanter is a modern development that compromises this traditional instrument somewhat to put it deliberately in a key/base pitch so it can play along with fiddles in particular, at modern, standard tuning. Because it drops a whole tone in the process, a key can be added on top to extend the range with a high E, which is a bonus. And again, because half-holing or cross-fingering the sackpipa chanter is not practical, you'll have to install a control band and decide before you play, just which note you're going to want from that finger ahead of time. So even then, it's not as practical as it should be. Consequently, it's a rather specialized feature and will likely remain so. _________________ Sigs are a waste of bandwidth |
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