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What's your favorite tune on the Sackpipa....
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texasbagpiper
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PostPosted: Mon Nov 27, 2006 11:35 pm    Post subject: What's your favorite tune on the Sackpipa.... Reply with quote

I like Ljugaren on Olle's site. This is the first tune I learned. Now if I can figure out how to get my embellishments to Olle's standards. Olle does it so nicely I hear lots of trills and cuts.. I'd like to get a thread started for us to post the tunes we record of ourselves as soon as I get some recording gear... I'm now learning the 2nd tune in the set.. The Miller of the Dee ....
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Anders Jackson
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PostPosted: Tue Nov 28, 2006 2:28 am    Post subject: Ok, which formats? Reply with quote

I have written down some trad. swedish bagpipes tunes in a program called Lillypond. It makes grat scores and quite nice midi files.

I can upload some PDF and MIDI-versions of them if you like.

Notice that you won't get propper played with real feeling, just mechanical played MIDI files. But I guess that is better than nothing.

Any sudgestions how to add them here? Question
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jerry revelle
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PostPosted: Tue Nov 28, 2006 5:12 am    Post subject: Adding Midis Reply with quote

Welcome Anders. I'll look into that question on adding midis. Maybe they have to be added to an HTML page on or Norden Folk website...or maybe Olle knows already?
Olle...l?


Jerry
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Anders Jackson
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PostPosted: Tue Nov 28, 2006 6:05 am    Post subject: Small website! Reply with quote

Ok, here is a first test.

You can have a look at http://www.jxn.se/Noter/ to see if you can use it.

It's my home computer, so be nice with it. Wink
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Liraman



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PostPosted: Tue Nov 28, 2006 9:11 am    Post subject: Re: Small website! Reply with quote

Anders Jackson wrote:
Ok, here is a first test.

You can have a look at http://www.jxn.se/Noter/ to see if you can use it.

It's my home computer, so be nice with it. Wink


Great work Jaxon, Great to see tha a geek program like Lilypond actually can be made to look nice.....
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Olle
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PostPosted: Tue Nov 28, 2006 11:14 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Seth, Ljugaren was one my firsts as well, and I think I learned if from you, Anders!

Anders Jackson was the one who introduced me to the Swedish bagpipe, 15 years ago. I owe him great thanks, though my neighbours opinion may differ ...

Note that the tune Jackson posted, När barnen mister mor of far, is in a minor key in his version. The version on my site is in major. There are other examples of Swedish tunes that are played in both modes (for example one of the polskas after Troskari Erik - http://user.it.uu.se/~crwth/bagpipes/swedish/sounds/trosk3.mp3 - which I play in minor key).
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Aaron K. Holt
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PostPosted: Tue Nov 28, 2006 1:53 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Ljugaren and the Miller of the Dee were the first tunes that I learned as well. Currently, my favorite tune to play has been Gärdsbygubbarnas Polska. The version appearing in Alban's tunebook is prefaced by Långdans that I like a lot.

I think posting recordings is a great idea. If you're a lone piper, you don't often get to hear other people playing. Apart from my own playing, the only time I hear the Swedish Bagpipe is when I'm listening to records. Different people will naturally have different tendencies in their playing and repetoire. It can be very inspiring to hear varying levels of experimentation from player to player.
While the main bulk of my repetoire is Swedish, I like to play a mix of Swedish and English tunes, as well as tunes preserved in various manuscripts from the middle ages (eg. The Red Book of Monserrat). The fun part about this is finding out which tunes fit, not just mechanically, but in feel and overall tone. For me, this encourages creativity in technique, I can't play an English tune on my Swedish bagpipe the same way that it was played on an English bagpipe, the skeleton of the tune is the same, but it has to be expressed very differently. Sometimes tunes which seem very unlikely sound great, sometimes tunes that seem perfectly suited to my pipes don't sound good through a single reed at all. Finding this out is the fun part.

Jerry, Would there be any way to set up an .ftp site to accompany the forum? That way we could sign in and then upload or download files.
Alternatively, itunes has a file sharing system, If everyone has a copy of that we could keep a folder of shared files for the forum on our computers without having to set up a website for it. I think you can download itunes for free... I think. Just a thought.
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jerry revelle
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PostPosted: Tue Nov 28, 2006 5:40 pm    Post subject: Tune posting on the Norden Folk website Reply with quote

Aaron,
I see no reason we couldn't assign an FTP directory on the Norden Folk website, if you all don't mind doing it that way. I'd like to try to route all the new traffic through NF to get visitors in America accustomed to finding all things Nordic, there. Everyone can certinly continute to reference their own websites and welcome, for more tunes and detail about them.

Many visitors will only want to listen to a tune on the NF site once and they'll quickly move on...or they'll be hooked by the scent of the forest and the sound of the stream they can hear in the notes.

I'll ask our site host to share up a write directory for us to do that if all you veterans agree. Please let me know if you don't because I'm new to all this.

Jerry

P.S. Does anyone know much about any Norwegian or other Nordic country tunes/pipes. We have an awfully lot of Norwegians around here (including on the other side of my breakfast table).
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jerry revelle
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PostPosted: Tue Nov 28, 2006 6:27 pm    Post subject: More on tune posting Reply with quote

Sorry but my UNIX head wasn't on straight when I thought we could simply FTP tunes up to a directory. It would open the whole site to visitors.

Instead, we'll create upload form on the site with a specific password to only one direcotry (you'll all have it) in order to post midis and other playable files. Should be ready this week. Questions??
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Aaron K. Holt
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PostPosted: Tue Nov 28, 2006 6:36 pm    Post subject: Re: Tune posting on the Norden Folk website Reply with quote

Thanks Jerry, that sounds just fine to me. If anyone else has any ideas, now is a good time to voice your opinion.

jerry revelle wrote:

P.S. Does anyone know much about any Norwegian or other Nordic country tunes/pipes. We have an awfully lot of Norwegians around here (including on the other side of my breakfast table).


I know a few little tunes from Norway that I can play on my bagpipe (Oppi Fjellet, Landet og Havet...), But other than the fact that they have Norwegian titles, I don't know much about them. I won't say that it's impossible that the Norwegians had a piping tradition, but I don't know of any surviving evidence indicating a native tradition (presuming that there was one to start with). Dalarna is just on the other side of the Keel from Norway though. Given the Swedish Bagpipe's home in Dalarna, if there were any Norwegian relatives they would probably be found in the areas around Ringsaker, Lillehammer or Trysil - but that's just an educated guess. I think our native Swedes on the list can probably supply the final word here.

Olle once told me that he thought either the instrument itself, or the idea of building the instrument likely arrived from Eastern Europe in the 17th century. I agree with this. Given the similarity of the types of bagpipe played in Eastern Europe and the fact that Sweden historically has always had closer trading ties with Eastern Europe than the rest of Scandinavia (excluding Finland) I wouldn't be very surprised to learn that its existence in Sweden is a fairly isolated occurence. I am slightly supprised that it popped up in Dalarna though, I would have put my money on Gotland.

While you may not find any actual bagpipes in Norway, I imagine that the previously mentioned areas of Eastern Norway would be a good place to find tunes playable on a bagpipe. Does anyone know any tunes from Eastern Norway?
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jerry revelle
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PostPosted: Tue Nov 28, 2006 9:53 pm    Post subject: First step to posting tunes Reply with quote

Here's the only way I can think of making this happen through NF's website without opening it up to FTP, which won't make it that much easier, anyway.

We have a form created to let anyone upload tunes (right now we haven't restricted it only to sound files...wav, midi, etc.., but if it's abused, we'll have to add that restriction, or somehow keep it clean for our users to enjoy.

Go to:

http://nordenfolk.org/Forum_Tunes/login.php

Login with:
Username - norden
Password - spelmanslag

My email (grr@nordenfolk.org) will receive a notification when someone has uploaded file(s) along with a direct link to the file. The form permits you to upload up to nine files at a time and supplies a comment section for you to list the titles.

I guess I will have to cut and paste that link to another page on NF's website to permit visitors to play them from a specific sackpipa page, yet to be created.

Anyone of you techies want to create this potentially beautiful page, with some nice photos of your various pipes and/or past spellmanstemma, not neglecting an area for me to plug in the links?
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Aaron K. Holt
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PostPosted: Fri Dec 01, 2006 1:58 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thanks Jerry,
I gave it a shot tonight. Let's see how it goes.
I played Brudmarsch från Äppelbo on my G/D bagpipe. After recording it, I was almost embarassed to upload it. My timing needs a little work, as do my trills. I have noticed that I've developed a bad habbit of moving my right hand index finger to vibrate the top C in the second part too early, the result is a small "burp" that sounds like a very low grace note. I was nervous when I recorded it, so I think that I played a little too fast.
I just got my pipes in June and I am teching myself, please go easy on me Wink
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jerry revelle
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PostPosted: Fri Dec 01, 2006 11:20 pm    Post subject: First tune is on-line Reply with quote

Aaron's bridesmarch is now accessable from the NF homepage. I hope I can master a set of pipes and learn a tune that fast, Aaron. Good work.

This is our first attempt to get the tunes up and available. I'm awaiting any suggestions as to how to improve the method. Please don't be shy, all of you with far more experience than I.

If anyone wants to design a more impressive presentation page to lodge the various tunes, please feel free to do that and pass it along with full credit from us. I'm not a html person and have little experience in this area.
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Aaron K. Holt
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PostPosted: Sat Dec 02, 2006 2:06 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thanks Jerry!
I've been learning web design for my job, but I'm no expert yet. I can pull a page together, but if anyone who's better at it wants to do it, I wouldn't be offended.

In the meantime Jerry, why don't you send me a pm detailing some of your ideas for the page. If you have any photos/logos/graphics that you would like to see included let me know, and I'll work out a mock up in pdf-format and send it to you for approval, and we'll proceed from there.
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jerry revelle
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PostPosted: Sat Dec 02, 2006 3:14 am    Post subject: Uploaded tune homepage design Reply with quote

I don't have ANY photos of pipes. Help, you veterans of piping and photography. Send Aaron something, please.
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WeeNooke



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PostPosted: Sat Dec 02, 2006 5:26 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Sounds great Aaron!
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Liraman



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PostPosted: Sat Dec 02, 2006 12:41 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

WeeNooke wrote:
Sounds great Aaron!


Before we get too technical: Someone earlier in this thread was asking for Norwegian tunes. Here's one i learned som 40 years ago - long before I started with bagpipes - from Swedish fiddler Magnus Sjögren (one of the founding members on northern Swedish group Norrlåtar)
http://www.tongang.se/liraman/norskganglat.pdf

This is n o t a confirmed traditional bagpipe tune, but having played it for so many years now, it may be - some hundred years from now or so!
I've never put the tune in writing before, but I've used it a lot in bagpipe workshops. It's a nice beginner's tune but even advanced players can have some fun with it espec. if you are a bunch of pipers and fiddlers who play together. You don't have to play the high note at the end of the tune, but if you do, Olle Gällmo's tips on his web site about playing in the 2nd octave will certainly do the trick
enjoy!
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Aaron K. Holt
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PostPosted: Sat Dec 02, 2006 3:35 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thanks for the link Jan, new tunes are always a welcome sight.
Thanks also to everyone for the comments.

Earlier in our thread, texasbagpiper mentioned acquiring recording equipment. I have some equipment sitting around from my old metal days, but I did not use it for my recording. I have a sound editing program on my laptop which I used to fade the beginning and end, and I added a little reverb, but that's it. I drove to a nearby park and recorded the tune in my car using the built-in microphone on the laptop. I thought it would sound horrible because the microphone is so close to the computer's noisy running elements (cooling fan etc.). But as far as sound quality goes, it's not bad. I live in an apartment, so I had to drive away (hence the laptop), but I imagine that anyone with a computer, a microphone, and a quiet room could do practically the same thing.
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Anders Jackson
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PostPosted: Sat Dec 02, 2006 5:55 pm    Post subject: Re: Tune posting on the Norden Folk website Reply with quote

jerry revelle wrote:
Aaron,
I'll ask our site host to share up a write directory for us to do that if all you veterans agree. Please let me know if you don't because I'm new to all this.

Jerry

P.S. Does anyone know much about any Norwegian or other Nordic country tunes/pipes. We have an awfully lot of Norwegians around here (including on the other side of my breakfast table).


You could always ask at http://go.to/sackpipa/ for pictures. But would be better with some more local ones like from NSAA members Smile

Anyway, I don't think there is any strong evidences of local tradition of bagpipes in Norway. There have some other strange instruments.

In Hansa(?) cities (like Visby and others) it is records about importing german pipes. But not anything else what I can see in the book "Säckpipan i Norden" by Per-Ulf Allmo.
John E. Berg writes about bagpipes in Norway and in short tells us that it might have been local bagpipes in Nord-Vestlandet in Norway. But after 1700 there is only one notice in a paper from 1849.

Anyway, you know about Hol Brita Larsdotter? She was a bagpiper from Järna in Dalarna that moved to USA in 1868 to Cokato in Minnesota (reading from the book right now). She was married with Skifts Anders Andersson There is a small lale that is named after the family, Skiftstrom Lake.

I play a Pols from Norway which works realy well on the pipes (but right now I don't remeber the name, i guess Olle or Jan can help me out here).
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Aaron K. Holt
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PostPosted: Sat Dec 02, 2006 6:31 pm    Post subject: Re: Tune posting on the Norden Folk website Reply with quote

Anders Jackson wrote:
In Hansa(?) cities (like Visby and others) it is records about importing german pipes. But not anything else what I can see in the book "Säckpipan i Norden" by Per-Ulf Allmo.
John E. Berg writes about bagpipes in Norway and in short tells us that it might have been local bagpipes in Nord-Vestlandet in Norway. But after 1700 there is only one notice in a paper from 1849.


Aah the old Hanseatic League. Good Point Jackson! I would imagine that such a huge trading organization like that would have diffused all sorts of different ideas from the Baltic to the Rhine valley.
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Anders Jackson
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PostPosted: Sat Dec 02, 2006 6:46 pm    Post subject: Re: Tune posting on the Norden Folk website Reply with quote

Aaron K. Holt wrote:
Anders Jackson wrote:
In Hansa(?) cities (like Visby and others) it is records about importing german pipes. But not anything else what I can see in the book "Säckpipan i Norden" by Per-Ulf Allmo.
John E. Berg writes about bagpipes in Norway and in short tells us that it might have been local bagpipes in Nord-Vestlandet in Norway. But after 1700 there is only one notice in a paper from 1849.

Aah the old Hanseatic League. Good Point Jackson! I would imagine that such a huge trading organization like that would have diffused all sorts of different ideas from the Baltic to the Rhine valley.

They worked in Bergen, Norway too. It was also a scottish influences in western scandinavia, like Gothenburg and Norway (Scottish moved becouse of religion and economic issus with english kings etc). But still John Berg didn't find any influences on local music traditions from Scotts in Norway. So neigth Hansa or Scottish influences with bagpipes made it into norways more modern folk music traditions.
And those Scottish and German bagpipes are western types, while the Swedish is an eastern type of bagpipe.
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jerry revelle
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PostPosted: Sat Dec 02, 2006 11:04 pm    Post subject: Traditions to/from Norway and on to Amerika Reply with quote

Interesting news, Anders. When the traildrivers and musiciansfrom the Dalarnas Femund Forskoringsforening (pardon my spelling!) visited us a couple years ago, I questioned them in detail about the any evidence of sackpipa playing among the horsemen or musicians. They knew of none. I would have thought this route, Roros to Dalarna and all other points in the two countries, would have spread the tradition.

My mother's parents emigrated from Järna area 1882-1891 (gårdsnam Knuters (grandfather) and Jugas (grandmother). They lived near the last piper in the area...Skålbyn, Nordanåker or Ilbacken...you'd know better

Jugasfolk went to Cokato Minn. first, with the free-baptists, unfortunately, because they gave up all the beautiful Dalarna traditions...music, dräkt, lutefisk..just kidding!...we didn't have any hint that Swedes once enjoyed life.

Anyway, it was a shame because I had to wait 100 years to get the traditions back, when I returned to Dalarna looking for my relatives in 1984. Another grandfather brought a fiddle to Wisconsin which he didn't dare play, I guess, in the strict Baptist communty in America: Jackson County Wisconsin (Garden Valley). They all wore nothing but black clothing.

I got much of my ancestry info from a good friend who volunteered at the Slaktforsakningshus (forgive my spelling) in Leksand. She's now at Malung's Kommun. My grandparents visited the Skiftstroms in Cokato in the 1940s. I have a cousin who remember going along...he's in his 80s. Small world.

The "Sackpipa i Norden" book was heavy going for me, ten years ago when I tried reading it with only my Järnamål speaking (not reading) ability, but I've since been speaking and listening to a lot more "real" Swedish, so I can get by pretty well.

I wanted to make a Norwegian link to the sackpipa because of the strong population of Norwegians in our USA community, if possible. Thanks for the great history. That really adds to our site and keep it coming whenever you feel the urge!
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Anders Jackson
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PostPosted: Sun Dec 03, 2006 12:19 am    Post subject: Re: Traditions to/from Norway and on to Amerika Reply with quote

Good to here that is some usefull information. You should realy read the book, if you know swedish. Specially the chapters about Järna. I could try to help with some parts if you need. Just use Jabber or mail if you have questions.You could always listen to <http://sr.se/> or <http://svt.se/> to train your swedish. There is programs called "Klartext" with news in easy swedish <http://www.sr.se/cgi-bin/p4/klartext/index.asp?nyheter=1&ProgramID=493>.

Anyway, the Norwegian tune that I play is "Pols från Röros". It's a nice tune to play, and works great with the pipes. But makes fiddlers go nuts, becouse I "plays it wrong". Smile
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jerry revelle
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PostPosted: Sun Dec 03, 2006 2:07 am    Post subject: Mastering Swedish Reply with quote

That is a good recommendation, Anders. I have tried to listen to RSA in the past, even with my old short wave. I like the squeels, pops and whistle sounds. It seems then that Sweden is as far away as it is, instead of so clear when it comes over the internet. I might try reading Sackpipa i Norden again...and thanks for the offer of help.

I knew the former director of RSA's international programming group; she had consistent interest in our group's cooperation with Swedish organizations (see our website hemsida). There have been several programs where she interviewed us for broadcast often along with the cooperating group in Sweden. I even met her in Stockholm, once for a tour of the studios. When we get your groups more closely coordinated, maybe it's time for another interview on both sides of the Atlantic. They do conference telephone calling for rebroadcast.
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PostPosted: Mon Dec 04, 2006 2:33 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Anders, I emailed my old friend Margaretha Hedblom in Malung...she grew up in Gavle..father's name Harry...about the Skifström connection in Cokato, since I knew she'd spend plenty of time researching the Jarna emigrants there. Here's her reply:


"I have been looking intensively for many yeras for any tracks of the bagpipes in Cokato. I think maybe they didn´t like the oldtime intsrument, which probably also smelled bad from "rotten grease" in the bag. I have had quite some contacts with Skifström descendants through the years..."


So that's that. My cousin Ray Carlson said he might prowl around the Cokato area one of these days to see whether he could turn up anything.
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Anders Jackson
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PostPosted: Mon Dec 04, 2006 10:11 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

You should ask here to check the chapters in "Säckpipan i Norden". And maybe with Per-Ulf Allmo, the author. Jan Winter might have some information to.

She probobly right about nobody continued to play the pipes in US, but there should be some notes about Hol Brita Larsdotter have played the instrument there. But I might have interpreted the text a bit optimisticly Confused
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PostPosted: Mon Dec 04, 2006 4:36 pm    Post subject: Cocato piper ? Reply with quote

Hej Anders...I had another email discussion with Margaretha and received the following. I guess we are no closer to some pipes in America.

"Hi! I helped Per Ulf Allmo when he wrote his big and very interesting book. He had a photo of a lady - unfortunately he misunderstood me so he has the name of the wrong person. I do not recall now if the photo is of the mother, who came [TO AMERICA] later to the daughter, or the daughter. I have been searching for letters from the families or from other people in Cokato. I simply think the bag pipe disappeared in America or even before they left. Other instruments became more popular. Have you seen the very nice photo of Lisa Fröman as a small girl sitting with one of the latest bag pipe blowers in Järna. I am sure Staffan has it"

The photo she refers to is of my second cousin as a little girl, watching the last piper from ?? Nordanaker, or somewhere. Olle, I sent you an old newspaper clipping from Falukuriren or Dalademokraten a couple years ago? Where was he from (I'm getting old!) I can't remember.
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Olle
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PostPosted: Mon Dec 04, 2006 5:04 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Gudmunds Nils? He was from Ilbäcken in Dala-Järna.

I'm sure the bagpipes were brought to America, but not surprised that they are not to be found today. I think I heard somewhere the Hol Britas bagpipe burned up.

Another piper who emigrated was Erik Persson. I play a tune after him quite often (a form of polska called Hamburgska) which should be on my web site but which I only now realized isn't. I don't know why it isn't there - I'll upload it shortly. Anyway, it is said that Erik played this tune at his farm just before he travelled south to Gothenburg, where he played it again in the harbour before embarking the ship and then a third time in New York when he got there. This was in 1855. I don't know where he ended up in the US though.
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jerry revelle
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Joined: 24 Oct 2006
Posts: 115
Location: Elk Mound, Wisconsin USA (rural)

PostPosted: Mon Dec 04, 2006 5:15 pm    Post subject: Ilbacken piper Reply with quote

Olle, yes that's the guy. Thanks for reminding me and thanks for the nice description of the emigrating piper...he came to life for me. I wish we could find his pipe, or more evidence. Maybe, as the word continues to get out, a set will turn up from somewhere.
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Olle
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Joined: 21 Oct 2006
Posts: 435
Location: Uppsala, Sweden

PostPosted: Mon Dec 04, 2006 8:09 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

The aforementioned bagpipe tune (the Hamburgska) after Swedish-American Säckpipa player and emigrant Erik Persson can now be found here: http://user.it.uu.se/~crwth/bagpipes/swedish/sounds/hamburgska.mp3

No link to it from the music page on my site yet, but i'll fix that, and a written music score as for the other tunes.
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Info on Swedish bagpipes at http://olle.gallmo.se/sackpipa
More about me at http://olle.gallmo.se
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