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Bag construction & air leakage

 
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Eliott



Joined: 04 Nov 2007
Posts: 6
Location: Tennessee

PostPosted: Sat Nov 10, 2007 10:27 pm    Post subject: Bag construction & air leakage Reply with quote

What's the best method of sewing a säckpipa bag in order not to have leaking of the air? Are there any things which someone can put to cover the stitches also to help prevent air leaking?

Also, what's the best animal to make the bag with? I can get deer pelt fairly easily around here in addition to cow. Has anyone ever made a bag using a full sheep pelt and attaching the drones and chanter through the leg and tail holes? That's how it's done in Greece and with some other Eastern bagpipes, and it seems like a pretty convenient way of making a bag that doesn't have a lot of stitches that could leak.
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Yuri
Senior User


Joined: 16 Dec 2006
Posts: 149
Location: New Zealand

PostPosted: Sun Nov 11, 2007 4:54 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I had mine made by a professional leatherworker, normally she does things like wallets, vests, and suchlike. She did a really excellent job, and selected a really suitable type of leather, with the result that now, some half a year later I still don't need any kind of stuffing poured down the bag. It has nothing in it except the leather. She used simply an industrial leather sewing machine.
As to the whole skin, don't also forget that traditionally a(n uncured) skin , as used in Eastern Europe, was not meant to last more than a couple of years. Then rot, mildew, worms and suchlike made it just too lively to keep on playing it, so it was replaced with a new one.
(By the way, the bag I use is the one visible on te avatar.)
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favrepipes



Joined: 26 Oct 2006
Posts: 63
Location: Vancouver

PostPosted: Sun Nov 11, 2007 10:12 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

It took some practice and many failed attempts, but I'm finally able to make bags that don't require seasoning now, at least at the time that they are made.

I've noticed better results when I drive the awl into the leather only as far as it takes to see the very tip penetrate out the other side and doing so in one single motion. If the awl goes any further than that it leaves a wider hole which can lead to leaks. The other technique that has improved the quality of my stitching is to not force or twist the stitching needle into the holes but rather let it slide/follow through gently and pull it out the other end at a right angle with small pliers. This may seem obvious but it isn't always as easy to do since the needle has a tendency to catch inside the hole on one of the 4 layers of leather that form the seam and it can be tempting to force it through. It's acquiring that flow that has taken a little practice. On the other hand, I am very aggressive when it comes to tightening the twine. Of course, the leather has to be airtight to begin with and of the right weight, but that alone won't guarantee an airtight bag. I've only used chrome-tanned cow hide to date.

Another step that I've been doing lately is to rub Lanolin into the stitching after the bag is fully sewn. I read somewhere that it expands the leather and it seems to work for me. Lanolin is the natural grease that is extracted from sheep's wool and is used as an ointment to relieve skin irritations and such. It has the same consistency as Vaseline only a little thicker. I only use Lanolin with inside-stitched bags so as to avoid grease stains on the suede side.

I hope this helps.
Bo
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Eliott



Joined: 04 Nov 2007
Posts: 6
Location: Tennessee

PostPosted: Sun Nov 11, 2007 3:55 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thanks for the replies! What type of thread do you use, Favre? I think the hardest part for me is going to be finding a lathe for the wooden parts. Even the cheapest lathes tend to cost a few hundred dollars, and I don't know of any community woodworking shops around here.
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favrepipes



Joined: 26 Oct 2006
Posts: 63
Location: Vancouver

PostPosted: Mon Nov 12, 2007 12:37 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Waxed artificial sinew works well. I get mine from Tandy and also use it for tying in the stocks.
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Frédéric Vigouroux



Joined: 20 Jun 2007
Posts: 24
Location: France

PostPosted: Thu Apr 03, 2008 9:19 pm    Post subject: bag in water resitant canva Reply with quote

Hello, i've recently tested bags in waxed canva.
Airtight no needed. No sewing either.
Just glued.
One hour to draw the shape, make the bag and play music.
Cost, around 10 euros each bag (it's a natural textile, high quality)
Beautiful traditional colors from the place were my bagpipe comes.
You could personalize your Bag with colors of your "clan", in a similar way to scottish tartans.
The canva is not elastic, blowing is very efficient.
it is thinner than leather so the piper can better listen to its reeds.
100% coton, perfect for vegetarians (not a joke !)
Possible washing-machine at 30°C
Must be more experimented, but… quite surprising !
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Nic



Joined: 08 Dec 2006
Posts: 38
Location: Québec

PostPosted: Fri Apr 04, 2008 3:38 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Bonjour Frédéric,

quel est ce matériau le Canva ciré ?....pourrais tu nosu en parler un peu plus ?

Merci !
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Frédéric Vigouroux



Joined: 20 Jun 2007
Posts: 24
Location: France

PostPosted: Fri Apr 04, 2008 3:55 pm    Post subject: Toile enduite = waxed canva Reply with quote

Sorry for my English
You can see the products on their website :
http://www.maisonartiga.com/fr/index.php
I'm not financially "interested", but i like the manufacture.
You could try with other fabrics, but these one are particularly well done.

Désolé pour mon Anglais
Les toiles peuvent être vues sur le site Artiga.
Je ne suis pas intéressé financièrement dans leur succès, mais j'aime ce qu'ils font.
Vous pouvez sans doute essayer avec d'autres toiles, mais celle-ci sont particulièrement bien faites.

I did'nt try a long time these bags. It is cheap, but maybe it could leak after a while. I must experiment over a year at least.

Je n'ai pas essayé très longtemps ces poches. Elles sont bon marché, mais elles pourraient fuir au bout d'un certain temps. Je dois expérimenter pendant un an au moins.

It looks like this :
One side is waxed, the other is natural.
i tried both side with the same success.

Voilà à quoi l'essai ressemble :
Un côté du tissus est enduit, l'autre est naturel.
J'ai essayé les deux côtés avec le même succès.


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Nic



Joined: 08 Dec 2006
Posts: 38
Location: Québec

PostPosted: Sat Apr 05, 2008 3:06 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Ok thank you for the picture and le link !

PS. Un de ces 4, je me promet de découvrir le Sud-ouest...et pourquoi pas une jolie Bouheu (boha !)

Nicolas
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favrepipes



Joined: 26 Oct 2006
Posts: 63
Location: Vancouver

PostPosted: Sun Apr 06, 2008 1:11 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I like the idea of using canvas-type materials. Let us know how it holds after a few months of playing. FYI, I have just posted a new bag-making demo http://www3.telus.net/bo/bag-insidestitch.htm which shows how to make an "in" seam bag if anyone is interested.
Bo
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Frédéric Vigouroux



Joined: 20 Jun 2007
Posts: 24
Location: France

PostPosted: Sun Apr 06, 2008 12:46 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

favrepipes, thanks for your "how to make a bag". It was very useful when I did mine. I would like to know the glue you used. I used hot melt glue (acrylic ?). it works better with the un-waxed side. The difficult part is to put glue regularly and obtain a nice shape when the bag is inflated. I tried to stitch first, then glue. It works fine, but you have to put the bag inside out 2 times. Advantage : you can improve tightness with an flat iron.

I had my first trouble with the bag : I must make special reeds. Something get wrong with pressure and vibrations. My reeds was made with a leather bag, a little more elastic. They don't sound right with the canvas one.

Nicolas, if you want a beautiful boha ( bou-Heu in French, you're right !)
I could send you address of the best makers. As for most traditional instruments, a good teacher is needed too.
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Nic



Joined: 08 Dec 2006
Posts: 38
Location: Québec

PostPosted: Sun Apr 06, 2008 2:49 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Mmmmm, I think it will be very hard to find a boha teacher in Quebec.... Sad
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Frédéric Vigouroux



Joined: 20 Jun 2007
Posts: 24
Location: France

PostPosted: Mon Apr 07, 2008 3:44 pm    Post subject: teachers… Reply with quote

Yes. You already play French bagpipes, i guess. So you'll manage with some practice and records. Teachers are working on a "method", but it's quite long.
I know there's a "bohaire" in Syracuse, New York. But not in Québec.
(see our map http://www.frappr.com/bohairesdegasconha)
et désolé de parler en anglais à un québecois, mais c'est le jeu du forum ! Wink
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JP WNC



Joined: 21 Dec 2006
Posts: 26
Location: Asheville, NC (USA)

PostPosted: Sun Apr 13, 2008 2:20 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

favrepipes wrote:
I like the idea of using canvas-type materials. Let us know how it holds after a few months of playing. FYI, I have just posted a new bag-making demo http://www3.telus.net/bo/bag-insidestitch.htm which shows how to make an "in" seam bag if anyone is interested.
Bo


Wow. I was wondering how you did that. I knew it would have to be inside out at some point, but not that the whole bag would be inside out and fit through the neck! My bag is still airtight. It's amazing how obvious a little leak is too. I didn't play for a couple of days during a rather dry period and when I went to go play, it was taking gobs of air. The wood must have shrunk a little during that time, so the first blow dislodged the valve a hair and it was leaking back on me. I couldn't figure out what was wrong at first until I heard a little hiss from the blowpipe. I took the blowpipe out, pushed the valve back down and secured it with a little dab of wax and it's been fine ever since.
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Anders Jackson
Senior User


Joined: 28 Nov 2006
Posts: 142
Location: Dalarna, Sweden

PostPosted: Wed Jul 09, 2008 9:45 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

It's easy to check if a bag is air tight. Just unplug pipes and plug with buttle corks. Blow up and it will be like like a foot ball. If doesn't hold the air for 10 minutes or so, just blow up and press the bag between your hands and start listening for leaks. The leak will hiss back at you.
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frodemo



Joined: 25 Feb 2007
Posts: 12
Location: Uppsala, Sweden

PostPosted: Sun Nov 02, 2008 11:50 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Ok, here's a late post in this thread but bare with me; Bags are one of my favourites...
I've tried a number of various leathers and synthetics and always ended up with the big favourite: Moose. Strong, hefty, durable and with a great look.
The only problems I've encountered (along with people using bags made by me) in terms of air escaping are due to the awl I used. Too thick so the seam holes became a bit big. Now that problem is erased.
But I really don't see a problem. With a good seasoning that also treats the leather, what's the hazzle? Just take out the pipes, cork up the stocks, pour in the magic goo, slush it around, rub the seams, pour out the excsess, hang the bag to dry(pointing downwards) over night, get some sleep and start the next morning with some nice piping. It's not rocket science we're dealing with.
Then again, the last bag I've made has been baloon- and piss tight for six years now thanks to the knowledge I've gathered.
Small holes, small stitches, good leather, good thread (I've always used menthol flavoured dental floss) and a kickass seasoning.
Of course we all want an instrument that is maintenance free, but I love tinkering with my babies a wee bit. Otherwise I'd have bought a plastic recorder and just go with that Smile
Peace, love and sweet sounds
/Peter
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Olle
Site Admin


Joined: 21 Oct 2006
Posts: 435
Location: Uppsala, Sweden

PostPosted: Tue Nov 04, 2008 11:04 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

My Uilleann pipe bag is one of Peter's moose bags. Very soft, nice and cuddly. :-)
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texasbagpiper
Senior User


Joined: 24 Oct 2006
Posts: 352
Location: Texas

PostPosted: Fri Jun 12, 2009 10:31 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Do any of you guys have a bag that is neither sewn or cap riveted. I was out at the Texas Scottish Festival and one of my pipemaking buddies was playing a set of highland pipes with a bag he made with no sewing or riveting. Its glued suede side in and turned inside out and a welt is glued along the outside seam. Its very strong and its fast and easy to make. It also looks pretty sweet. I'll take a picture of a set I made with this type of bag. If it holds up for the highland bag it will be fine with the Sackpipa, and I squeezed the hell out of it trying to get it to give and its stout as a mule. Cheers, Seth
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