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Water trap

 
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Olle
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PostPosted: Thu Nov 15, 2007 11:08 pm    Post subject: Water trap Reply with quote

I built myself a water trap for my mouthblown Swedish bagpipe.

I have wanted to do that for years, having had some tuning problems due to moisture, but since my mouthpiece has been stuck solid in my bag for 12 years that was not an option. (fortunately I have never had any problems with my air valve - I can't get to it)

Now I have a new mouthblown bagpipe, and the first thing I did was to make myself a water trap. There was a discussion about such traps some time ago in the Swedish forum (here is a direct link). It is in Swedish, but you may want to have a look at the pictures there from Erik Ask-Upmark who has had such a thing in his bag for some time.

The idea is to make the mouthpiece longer, internally, using a plastic hose so that the air enters the bag well inside, towards the back, i.e. far from the reeds. That way, the bag itself takes most of the moisture instead of the reeds. So, in effect, it is the bag which is the real water trap here, not the hose as I thought at first (though some water gets trapped in there too).

On bagpipes made by Alban Faust it is very easy to make one. Alban's mouthpieces end with a copper tube, which is inserted into the air valve (the rubber thingie at the end). Just remove the air valve, take another piece of copper tube (same diameter) and attach the valve to that instead, then connect the two with a rubber hose.

It seems to work very well. My old instrument had to be warmed up for at least 10 minutes before I could trust the tuning to stay in place for long enough to play a single tune. So, there was no point adjusting the chanter reed to play in tune when dry (i.e. immediately when the instrument is picked up). There is now. Having adjusted the same chanter reed to play in tune when dry the instrument is immediately in tune when I pick it up, and, thanks to the water trap (and to the new bag, I'm sure, which probably can suck up more moisture than its dry old predecessor) it stays there. For how long I don't know yet - I haven't made a marathon test - but both yesterday and today I picked up the instrument dry and played directly, for at least 20 minutes, without having to adjust anything, not even the tuning slide on the drone! Amazing.

Drawbacks: It takes a bit more pressure to blow air into the bag (not surprising). Tiny droplets of condensated water from the inside of the hose may travel to the air valve making it leak a tiny bit of air (not enough to be noticable as an air pressure problem, but it makes an irritating fizzle sound through the mouthpiece). Erik reports that the back end of the bag will get pretty wet after a while.

Another effect, which I consider an advantage, is that the hose makes the mouthpiece stay up also when you stop squeezing the bag. [Have you noticed, on some of my recorded tunes, a <click> directly after I stop playing? - That's my mouthpiece crashing down on my drone! :-)]
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Aaron K. Holt
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PostPosted: Fri Feb 15, 2008 5:24 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I've been employing the same method of moisture control for a while now as well. I find that after expending 3/4 of the air in the bag, it can be difficult to re-inflate quickly enough to avoid a noticeable change in tone.

Otherwise I love using it.

Do you notice anything like that Olle?
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Olle
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PostPosted: Fri Feb 15, 2008 9:07 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

(Amazing that it took 3 months before anyone responded to this)

No, I have had no such problems. The time it takes to inflate the bag does not affect tone for me (and I don't think it should for you either - maybe you need to practice your arm control, Aaron?) :-)

I'm still happy. Essentially I don't need to warm my bagpipe up anymore, I just pick it up and play (this, with the same 13 year old reeds which gave me problems before). The instrument has become very accessible for that reason. For (in)frequent day-to-day piping it is very convenient - if I want to play a tune during a TV-commercial I just pick the bagpipe up and honk away. It does not matter if I haven't played for a week, or if I played it for several hours the same day. This in turn means that I play more often than I did before, which probably also helps keeping the reeds (and me) in shape.
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Aaron K. Holt
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PostPosted: Fri Feb 15, 2008 9:26 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Overall I agree, the benefit of having your pipes play in tune every time you pick them up can't be overstated.

Arm Control!? That's preposterous! I think the problem has more to do with the time it takes for the air to get moving down the length of tube versus the amount of air being expended. C'mon Olle admit it, you noticed it at first too.
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Olle
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PostPosted: Fri Feb 15, 2008 9:35 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I don't deny that it takes longer (more effort) to fill the bag through a hose. That is definitely a drawback. I was only suggesting that even so, that should not affect your tone (which is where arm pressure comes in). But you have the strange habit of playing bagpipes in your car - maybe your left elbow hits the door when you get excited ... :-)
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Aaron K. Holt
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PostPosted: Sat Feb 16, 2008 7:25 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I think that's the problem, I probably haven't allowed for the extra time that it takes to fill the bag, so I expend too much air before refilling, and by the time I do its too late.
I only notice this when practicing during the winter months (in my car) so you may have a point, I notice that I have to hold the bag a little differently because of the limited space.

If I were to practice in my apartment, someone would likely complain to the landlord. Then I would have the even stranger habit of *living* in my car. Shocked

Besides, I NEVER get excited Cool
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Olle
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PostPosted: Sat Feb 16, 2008 7:41 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I don't know much about cars, I just drive them, but I was under the impression that most of them have the horn on the outside ...

Quote:
I probably haven't allowed for the extra time that it takes to fill the bag, so I expend too much air before refilling, and by the time I do its too late.


Too late for what?

You can still refill the bag faster than the air is "consumed", I hope?

(There is a lesson in this for any builders out there: Don't make mouthpieces too narrow, lest the air leak out through the drone(s) and chanter faster than you can refill the bag ...)
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Aaron K. Holt
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PostPosted: Sat Feb 16, 2008 11:57 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Yeah I can refill it fast enough, I actually just got back from practicing, the problem was my reed - The one that I mentioned in an earlier post.

The tongue isn't scraped at all and its very hard to blow. It stays in tune really well, but I decided to switch back to my old reed, it stayed in tune for a whole hour with the water trap, so whatever benefit had been gained from the other one is irrelevant.

***

It's amazing what the people in central Pennsylvania think when they see someone practicing a Swedish Bagpipe in a car at a local park. I've had to answer all kinds of questions. I've gotten to know the local police pretty well too - I guess people think that I'm getting stoned, because they normally call the police complaining that there is a guy in the park smoking a hookah. Nowadays the cops just say "no he isn't, its just that red-head playing his bagpipe".

Olle, did you ever try using your bagpipe as a Hookah?
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Anders Jackson
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PostPosted: Tue Feb 19, 2008 12:09 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

It has been claimd that Gudmunds Nils used to have vodka in his bag. Have nobody asked you of that Smile

Why don't you stand outside and play? Then you might get some pupils to teach swedish bagpipes? Smile

You could also make a poster with information about bagpipse, and and about the swedish one.

By the way, are you planing on any trip to sweden? We could make a travel plan, like to Bingsjöstämman and Korrö etc. Wink
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Aaron K. Holt
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PostPosted: Tue Feb 19, 2008 1:54 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

It's funny that you should mention the vodka, in addition to my normal case humidifier, I've got a shot glass with a wadded-up papertowel soaked in water. I set that on the dashboard when I'm playing. A policeman saw that once and I had a lot of explaining to do.

When the weather is nice I play outside at the park. People always like to stop by and chat. I've actually been working on just such a poster lately. Before, I just carried a handful of photos in my wallet that I printed from the internet.

I would love to go to Sweden, I would have to save up some money and get some time off from work though. It is something that I've been thinking about for a long time now. I'm very interested in learning Swedish also. Can you send me some dates for different bagpipe events? The only one that I know of is Gagnef.
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Yuri
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PostPosted: Wed Feb 20, 2008 4:19 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Here's a thought. When practising in the park, you could always put out the hat. It would help you towards the trip to Sweden.
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Anders Jackson
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PostPosted: Wed Feb 20, 2008 5:00 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Ok, you americans don't have 35 working days vacation per year, do you? And universal health care? Anyway, that is OT.

Yes, it's cost a lot of money to travel between US and Europe, but with some planning, you can save on hotel costs Wink

There is only one bagpipe event, and that is the one you mention. Or is it more, Olle? I have not the current state on a winter event in Karlstad, was it?

But you have some great "Spelmansstämmor" after midsummer. Which is ok playing pipes at. My favorites are Bingsjöstämman and Falu Folkmuisc Festival (FFF). But the last is no more Sad

About Swedish. My signature is English spelled in Swedish, If you want to know how some of our characters is pronounced. Wink
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Olle
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PostPosted: Wed Feb 20, 2008 10:14 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

In summer, the only event with explicit focus on bagpipes is the meeting in Gagnef (last weekend in June). There is also the Karlstad meeting but that is in January (which, even this year, can hardly be called a summer month).

But, as Anders says, there are lots of general gatherings (spelmansstämmor). Ransäter (early June), Bingsjö (early July) and Korrö (late July) are perhaps the ones that usually attracts most pipers. Korrö in particular, has a strong drone music focus (though it is not called "drone festival" anymore). And there is the Mediaeval week on Gotland (mid August) as well. Not a spelmansstämma in the usual sense, but lots of bagpiping for sure.
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Aaron K. Holt
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PostPosted: Thu Feb 21, 2008 12:19 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Anders Jackson wrote:
Ok, you americans don't have 35 working days vacation per year, do you? And universal health care? Anyway, that is OT.


That's right. Instead we get to have bosses who get irritated when we stop to eat lunch, or when it's time go home for the day. But don't worry! Our caring government borrows trillions of dollars from China almost every week. I'm sure that It's for a perfectly good purpose that ALL citizens will benefit from! Wink

I've been to Norway twice before, but that was years ago when I was still in school and living with my parents. I really wanted to see the fjords and Oslo's Vikingskiphuset. Ahh the days of disposable income.

I'll make it over to Sweden one day, I've been wanting to see the bronze age carvings at Bohuslän, the mounds at Uppsala, and the Vendel artifacts at Statens Historiska Museet for a very long time now. And needless to say, since I started piping, I've wanted to learn more about traditional music in Sweden. It's one thing to learn from the internet, but to actually meet different musicians and learn from them first-hand is what I would really like to do someday.

Olle, the meeting in Karlstad may be my best bet for the future - It's a LOT cheaper to travel to Scandinavia in winter.
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Aaron K. Holt
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PostPosted: Thu Feb 21, 2008 12:23 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Anders Jackson wrote:
About Swedish. My signature is English spelled in Swedish, If you want to know how some of our characters is pronounced. Wink


I know a little already, but I've been told before that I sound more like a Norwegian with a cold. I'll have to work on that.
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Olle
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PostPosted: Thu Feb 21, 2008 10:02 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
Olle, the meeting in Karlstad may be my best bet for the future - It's a LOT cheaper to travel to Scandinavia in winter.


I wonder why ... :-)
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Yuri
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PostPosted: Thu Feb 21, 2008 11:03 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

You are quite right...- all those endless vistas of fantasic sparkling snow... The beautiful pale, incredibly clear sky, the snow sparkling like a bunch of diamonds.. . I'm serious, not being facetious. I never been to Scandinavia, but did live in St Petersburg for a couple of years.
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JP WNC



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PostPosted: Sat May 03, 2008 4:58 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Anders Jackson wrote:

About Swedish. My signature is English spelled in Swedish, If you want to know how some of our characters is pronounced. Wink


Like this? Smile

http://skaendoenejveeoen-eenglisjfoennediks.blogspot.com/
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Anders Jackson
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PostPosted: Wed Jul 09, 2008 10:24 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

JP WNC wrote:
Anders Jackson wrote:

About Swedish. My signature is English spelled in Swedish, If you want to know how some of our characters is pronounced. Wink


Like this? Smile

http://skaendoenejveeoen-eenglisjfoennediks.blogspot.com/


Well, not really. We don't use þ, ð ø and æ in sweden. Alphabethical order of characters used: A B C D E F G H I J K L M N O P Q R S T U V W X Y Z Å Ä Ö

Notice that we don't use ö and ë as you do in english (like "coöperative", look in wikipedia.org). They are different sounds. But this is OT.
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