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Teaching chldren to play

 
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Joanne Graves



Joined: 12 Oct 2007
Posts: 6
Location: Poulsbo, WA

PostPosted: Sat Oct 13, 2007 5:16 am    Post subject: Teaching chldren to play Reply with quote

Hi,
I am new to this forum and have joined for a reason. My nine year old son wants to learn to play swedish bagpipes. We had the pleasure of seeing Dram perform in Puyallup.

Niether my husband or I are musical people. We do not know anyone who plays bagpipes let alone Swedish bagpipes. Is it an impossible dream to think that I could help my son learn to play Swedish bagpipes?
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Aaron K. Holt
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Joined: 01 Nov 2006
Posts: 291
Location: Pennsylvania

PostPosted: Mon Oct 15, 2007 1:46 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I think you can do it.
I didn't know any pipers when I started either. The only thing that I think may highten the challenge is not having any background in music, but that can be overcome as well. I would reccommend getting a beginner's book on music theory. That will help you both learn to read music and understand some basic principles like major vs minor scales etc.
The good news is you have several things working on your side: the bagpipe is essentially a diatonic instrument, that is, it doesn't have notes that aren't part of a specific scale. Depending on the chanter, you can alter that scale a little by including a few extra notes (see Olle's website), but the point is, he won't have to sit down and memorize the locations of different scales like on a guitar or piano. Also, because of that, you only have to worry about roughly nine notes (again, that depends on the chanter).

Olle's website has a lot of good information as well as tunes and scores. You will be off to a good start if you read it often, and listen to music often. And don't get discouraged when you first attempt to tune the reeds! New reeds can be cranky.
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Olle
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Joined: 21 Oct 2006
Posts: 435
Location: Uppsala, Sweden

PostPosted: Mon Oct 15, 2007 4:55 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

There should also be several Swedish bagpipers in the state of Washington who could help you out. Poulsbo is in the Seattle area, right?
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Aaron K. Holt
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Joined: 01 Nov 2006
Posts: 291
Location: Pennsylvania

PostPosted: Mon Oct 15, 2007 11:03 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

That's a good point Olle, there are more Swedish pipers on the west coast than over here on the east coast. You may be able to find some help nearby Joanne.
Besides, just think, you got lucky, your son was inspired by seeing Dråm instead of Wagner's "Der Ring Des Nibelungen". While I love both Wagner and Dråm, a Swedish bagpipe is certainlly the more manageable alternative for a beginner!
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JP WNC



Joined: 21 Dec 2006
Posts: 26
Location: Asheville, NC (USA)

PostPosted: Tue Oct 16, 2007 4:11 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Also, don't discount the possibility that you don't necessarily need another swedish bagpipe player (though it would be preferable). I see you've found the presentation thread (where everyone can say who they are and what they play and such)...you should note that a lot of people play other instruments. The funny thing about instruments is that the more you play them, the more similar they appear to you. Someone who learns to play Saxophone, can learn to play clarinet fairly easily...far more easily than learning the Sax in the first place. From there playing flute isn't that much of a stretch...similar fingerings, just a different mouth placement. Now these are possible because all woodwind instruments are fairly similar. Try to transition to a trumpet or some other brass instrument and you're almost back to square one - except for the basic musical background. Ditto with strings. But with the fundamentals of music...knowing about rhythm, notes, etc allows you to much more easily branch out. So, someone that teaches clarinet, saxophone, oboe...some kind of reeded woodwind instrument should be able to point him in the right direction. While perhaps not knowing exactly the intricacies of the pipes, they shouldn't be completely like a fish out of water. Or, on the flipside, for the intricacies of the pipes you should be able to find someone that plays the Great Highland pipes near you - they're everywhere. Seriously.

Just a couple seconds on Google with "Poulsbo, WA bagpipes" brings up this:
http://www.pipesndrums.org/
a non-profit bagpipe and drum band providing Celtic and Scottish music throughout the Kitsap, Key, and Olympic Peninsulas
Mailing Address:
POB 1511
Gig Harbor, WA 98335
360.874.9463

Just be creative. I see on the presentation thread that your kids are Nordic folk dancers. Surely they've learned to dance listening to music, and surely some of that music has been live? I'm sure that among the people that play in those bands that there's someone that (even if they play fiddle, nykelharpa, whatever) either knows someone that plays bagpipes, or would like to play bagpipes themselves and have a pretty good idea how to do so - plus they have that basic background in music, and that would probably be enough. The bonus with finding someone in that venue is that they already know how that music should sound and be played. That would be the best route if you can't find another Swedish piper...just find a Swedish fiddle player that knows a little something about bagpipes and reeded instruments.
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Joanne Graves



Joined: 12 Oct 2007
Posts: 6
Location: Poulsbo, WA

PostPosted: Tue Oct 16, 2007 4:34 am    Post subject: teaching children Reply with quote

Thank you for your support. My children dance with the Poulsbo Leikarringen. yes, Poulsbo is outside of Seattle, across Puget Sound via ferryboat.

Our older children dance with live music. We have a fiddle, flute, and accordians. Our fiddle player is quite good and is thinking of taking up uleliene (I know I have that spelled wrong) pipes.

Two of our teenage dancers have been teaching themselves to play bagpipes. They bought chanters on ebay that came with an instruction book. Would that be the way to start or should I try to get a set of swedish pipes?

My son has always enjoyed listening to and watching pipers. He is unfortunatly handicapped by having non-musical parents. We are currently trying to learn to play piano.
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JP WNC



Joined: 21 Dec 2006
Posts: 26
Location: Asheville, NC (USA)

PostPosted: Tue Oct 16, 2007 7:54 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I'm not sure what to say about the practice chanter though I'd be leaning against it (and you should definitely avoid the ones off of ebay). Not because a practice chanter is a bad thing, but because the practice chanter your two dancers most likely have and the ones you see sold on ebay and elsewhere are for Great Highland bagpipes (GHB)...it's not a terrible idea but GHB practice chanters are going to act, sound, and feel a lot different than a Swedish chanter and also only be able to play in the key of D major (where as most of the Swedish songs seem to be in Minor key...that is to say, a GHB practice chanter would only be able to play a small subset of Swedish songs).

It would seem to me a much easier proposition to learn with a Swedish chanter from the beginning. It wouldn't be a bad idea, since most of these pipes are custom built anyway, to also have a blowpipe constructed to make the chanter convertible into a Swedish practice chanter. That way he'd be able to learn fingerings to songs without the added difficulty in having to fight with the bag and the drone. Being able to learn songs more quickly from the beginning would probably help him stick with it and be less frustrating.

The reason it's a necessity for Great Highland pipers to use a practice chanter is because of the great physical demands of the Great Highland pipes which I understand require a much higher bag pressure and much greater air demand than Swedish pipes, plus the chanter is very long and requires a substantial reach. On top of that, once you get all four pipes on a GHB (three drones, one chanter) going, there's basically no stopping and any mistake you make is multiplied by its extreme volume and high pitch. The Swedish pipes ("traditional" anyway) only have two pipes (one drone, one chanter), a fairly light air demand and lighter bag pressure, and have a pseudo "pause" since the lowest note of the chanter is the same as the drone. Swedish pipes are also quieter, and lower pitched, making it more manageable to learn songs with them than having to use a practice chanter. Though like I said, there should be benefits to being able to convert the Swedish pipe chanter into a practice chanter with a simple blowpipe the pipe maker could easily build.

I should point out that you're "fairly" close to Bo Favre (http://www3.telus.net/bo/sackpipa.htm) he builds pipes and lives in Vancouver, BC, Canada. Very nice guy, though he seems pretty busy, he might be willing to teach some basics. If you can't find another Swedish piper that lives close to you, I'd see if your fiddler could teach him, especially since the fiddle player has an interest in pipes ("Uilleann", btw). Which means that though he doesn't play them, he'll at least have some idea how they operate - and he knows Nordic style music, which is quite a good thing. It might be harder that way than having a fellow Swedish piper, but certainly not impossible and many people have self-taught all sorts of strange instruments without help and have had great results. With even a small amount of help and a lot of determination I'm sure he can learn quite well.

You might want to direct your two dancers to www.hotpipes.com and have them read the material on learning the GHB there, it could save them a lot of trouble and make learning more enjoyable. You can also direct your fiddle player to http://www.daye1.com/pennychanter.html it's probably his best option for starting Uilleann pipes.
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Olle
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Joined: 21 Oct 2006
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PostPosted: Tue Oct 16, 2007 8:22 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

A cheap way to make a practice chanter for Swedish bagpipes, is to take a tin whistle in D (you should be able to find one for only a few bucks in any music instrument store) and tape down the second finger hole from top. Cover a bit more than half of it (the upper half) with scotch tape. Voila, it plays the Swedish minor scale (in G). Of course, if you want to play tunes in a major key, you don't have to tape it down at all. Most Swedish tunes are in a minor key, though.

However, to most people I have met and taught, the most difficult aspect of learning to play Swedish bagpipes is not the actual playing, but the technical maintenance of the instrument. In particular the reeds. So, any contact you can make with other players and (even better) builders would be worth a lot.

I can probably dig up some names of players in the state of Washington for you, but I don't want to post them here, for integrity reasons.
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Aaron K. Holt
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Joined: 01 Nov 2006
Posts: 291
Location: Pennsylvania

PostPosted: Wed Oct 17, 2007 11:17 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Olle Gällmo wrote:
However, to most people I have met and taught, the most difficult aspect of learning to play Swedish bagpipes is not the actual playing, but the technical maintenance of the instrument. In particular the reeds. So, any contact you can make with other players and (even better) builders would be worth a lot.


I can vouch for that. It took me quite some time to make a reed that functioned just how I wanted it to. But if you are close enough to another piper who can give you first hand advice (and maybe adjust the reeds for you at first), you will save a lot of time and frustration.
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Joanne Graves



Joined: 12 Oct 2007
Posts: 6
Location: Poulsbo, WA

PostPosted: Wed Oct 17, 2007 6:20 pm    Post subject: teaching children Reply with quote

I like the idea of getting a tin whistle for him to learn on. This sounds like a quick and easy way to get him started and keep his interest up.

by the way, it is our flute player, not the fiddle player, who is interested in playing pipes. However, my children reminded me he does not play flute, he plays recorder.

I have seen Bo Favre website. I also noticed there is a "practice Chanters" thread. I will take a look at that as well.

God Bless and thanks for all the information
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Joanne Graves



Joined: 12 Oct 2007
Posts: 6
Location: Poulsbo, WA

PostPosted: Sat Oct 27, 2007 4:47 pm    Post subject: children playing Reply with quote

Do recorders have the same fingering as bagpipes? my daughter reminded me that we have two recorders already, one plastic and one wood. My duaghter learned to play recorder at parochial school and could probably teach joseph to play.
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Yuri
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Joined: 16 Dec 2006
Posts: 149
Location: New Zealand

PostPosted: Sun Oct 28, 2007 3:50 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

In a word- no. There are bagpipes that are made with recorder fingering, but the Swedish ones are not. (All types tend to have different fingerings, though they also tend to coincide in groups; after all, you can only have so many different approaches.)
But one thing you can do is to convert a cheap plastic recorder to a specific fingering by retuning some (or all) of the fingerholes to a specific scale. This is done by stuffing something that will stay there into te holes (traditionally done with wax, it also can be removed if no longer wanted.) to flatten the pitch, and enlarging the hole to sharpen it. Offhand I'd say that you don't need the latter one.
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Joanne Graves



Joined: 12 Oct 2007
Posts: 6
Location: Poulsbo, WA

PostPosted: Sun Oct 28, 2007 5:00 am    Post subject: children playing Reply with quote

so, based on the replies above, a tin whistle would be a better option to get him started learning the fingering.

There is a bagpipe band that pracitices about an hour or so from where we live. When things settle down here a bit I hope to contact them and take my son down to hear them play. Their website says they welcome visitors.

Right now we are busy fitting costumes on our dancers and getting ready for our annual lutefisk dinner, followed by our jul fest celebration, than Lucia! Lots of dancing in the next couple of months!

God Bless,
Joanne
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